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How was it? I didn't go: music too loud; too many people talking too loud inside the showrooms; too many tin men; too hard to tell the good from the bad from the ugly in this type environment.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Follow Ups:
There was lots of great info, research, tours of facilities, etc.
There was a time when I was interested in hi-fi shows, and they were useful to my career. I'd still enjoy going to one. Thankfully, I've gotten to where I would go just for fun, and not because I HAVE to for my job.
Between Malcolm Dunn's presentation and touring The Village recording studios and hanging with my old mentor, I could not have been happier at AES.
:)
Went for 2 days. 4th or 5th trip to RMAF. I think the number of exhibitors has fallen, but there are newer, smaller companies/individuals appearing with interesting products. It seems you still see the established, mostly high dollar brands, but I noticed more rooms dedicated to affordable systems, some of which sounded pretty damn good (Sony for one).
The reps/owners/inventors are pretty laid back at this show in general; most seem to take time and interest in the attendees who listen for a a few cuts, and don't just walk into a room and sit down in the 'sweet spot' for 7 seconds, then leave.
You can't please everyone, but naturally I'm attracted from a hallway to a room where music I enjoy (N Jones, E Cassidy, African folk music, Knofler, etc.) is playing; as opposed to hard accoustical, New Age, hard Jazz. But again, that's only my bias.
Nordost had an interesting project in the Mezzanine. Jeff Rowland electronics with Vahalla cabling. The reps then put on an hour's demo of switching out ONE cable at a time, and playing the same cut of music for 45 to 60 seconds. Going up the line, for example, with Nordost power cables, even my ancient ears could tell a definite difference.
I think the RMAF people work damn hard to put on a show in a nice locale, and I'll continue to visit to learn and enjoy.
Nothing night and day, but the improvements as you moved up the line were clearly audible. Wish I'd asked which cheapie cable he was using for a baseline-it looked like Radio Shack pro gold.
I went for all 3 days and had a great time- it was pretty dead on Sunday, but that made it a lot easier to request tracks from my demo disc. RMAF is a lot friendlier and more laid back than other shows I've been to.
What time, more or less, were exhibitors striking their rooms on Sunday?
Vbr,
Sam
I was in the tower negotiating some speaker cables about 4 PM when people began earnestly packing up.
Oh, that seems pretty good for those attending.
Show hours were to 4 p.m., Sunday.
Which cables interested you? Hope you got them :-)
Vbr,
Sam
Speaker cables; Snake River Hybrids. Scored a pair of Dynaudio C1's (lightly used) on a trade and needed cables. " " has gotten good press (although they don't advertise much, or at all), and the owner is very approachable and informative, no hard sell at all. Haven't set up system yet but will report back when I do.
Linkwitz doesn't sell loudspeakers, but he does sell the plans to build the LX521, one of the best sounding speakers I heard at the show, for $150. You can purchase a kit from Madison which includes everything you need, all the drivers, the active crossover, and the pre-cut panels, for $3,058. You can also purchase two 5 channel Emotiva XPA-5 amps, for $1,998.
For a little over 5k, and some of your time, you can own a world class speaker and the amplification to drive them, which in my mind is pretty damn significant, considering there wasn't too many speakers that impressed me as much as these did, and those that did, cost 10 to 20 times as much.
In the Mega buck world of High End Audio, The Linkwitz LX521 restores sanity, and certainly readjusted my perspective on what one could expect from a modestly priced loudspeaker.
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I certainly enjoyed the Orion's a few years back at Axponia. Without question one of the most enjoyable full range set-ups being driven by Pass Electronics. A room you didn't want to leave. I would expect the same from this design. If only it could be a bit more attractive.
Link to Stereophile LX521 and LXMini coverage at 2014 RMAF: http://www.stereophile.com/content/rmaf-2014-reichert-Sunday(all text removed per JA; also removed jive paraphrasing because it offended one brotha).
Edits: 10/15/14 10/15/14
Summing Up
I have not tested or even briefly listened to every high-end loudspeaker out there, but of all the speakers known to me none equals the Linkwitz Lab LX521 in my opinion. I have been to a few audio shows fairly recently and auditioned the most highly touted speakers there, and after each listening session I just shook my head, wondering how they could charge so much money for such obviously canned, unlifelike sound. It’s as if the designers had never heard live acoustic music in a concert hall. Siegfried Linkwitz has not only established a new paradigm but has also proved that throwing money at each component of a speaker design, and then charging the consumer with a huge multiple of the cost, is not the way to go. Instead, the simple and cost-effective principle of the “spectrally neutral radiation pattern” rules!
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N/T
Is Aczel saying it's even better than the Fourier?
Am I the only one here that finds the "paraphrasing" of JA racist and offensive?
Just curious.
... tedious, boring and untalented.
One sentence would be OK, one paragraph is way over the top, entire post - is just plain silly.
> Am I the only one here that finds the "paraphrasing" of JA racist and
> offensive?
And childish. All I am asking is that material from Stereophile not be
quoted in almost its entirety, as it originally was from Herb Reichert's
comments on the Linkwitz room at RMAF. We may give readers free access to
our content, but that doesn't mean others are entitled to steal it.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Even if you include a link to the original, as you have done here, please
do not repost this much content from Stereophile on third-party sites
like the Audio Asylum. A sentence or two is almost certainly fair use;
two long paragraphs is almost certainly not.
Thank you.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Pity about the looks!! awful!!
An ugly speaker that sounds good will look pretty after awhile. A sexy speaker that sounds ugly will be be seen as ugly after awhile.Indeed, plain and boring and ugly speakers that last is a pretty decent indicator that they probably sound pretty good. They're probably surviving on their sound not their looks.
Edits: 10/15/14
My wife would not agree, an ugly speaker will stay an ugly speaker.
Maybe they sound better than they actually are as you would not expect such ugly speaker to sound that good?? :)
Those speakers could certainly be made to look better than the basic forms shown in the photos. The cost-to-performance ratio would be rather handily destroyed that way, of course.Taking a cue from the Decware archives, something that looks like this might be the alternative using butt ugly PVC pipes and fittings...
Edits: 10/15/14 10/15/14
The edges of plywood don't do anything for me either and I would agree that much can be done about the looks. The top baffle takes a little getting used to but given the choice between great sound and looks, I'll take the sound any day. If I want furniture I'll go to the furniture store.
A fellow named Bill Schneider did wonders to make them look quite good. Here is a picture of his LX521s as well as a link to his build documentation. I think his web page has been a real asset as well as a benchmark to many builders.
Linkwitz labs also has this link to some others who have a different look. Some are quite nice. I actually like the looks of them and have all along.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/PhotoGallery.htm
Especially for those ugly bass drivers.
Fundamentally as ugly but with a nice finish.
I could live with those quite easily, especially considering their sound.
The biggest issue I have is amplification. As good as they sounded with the XP5's, I'd like to use something a little more high end, but that could get quite costly with 6 channels of amplification. Just curious what other LX521 users are using.
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One word: Hypex.
I'm currently using a pair of Channel Islands D200 mk. II's which use the Hypex chip set.
I'm quite happy with the sound, but at 4k per channel of amplification, it would be too expensive to use with the LX521. Which Hypex amplifiers are you referring to?
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Sunfire 5 channel amp that's been out of service for a while and I'm looking for another one to match up with it for the 521s I'm building. A secondary plan is to use the Sunfire for the 4 woofers and get a Bryston or something similar for the mids and tweeters. From the people I've talked to there seem to be a lot of people mixing amps and being perfectly happy with the results. You're right though, the amps are an outlay of cash to consider. IMO I think Mr Linkwitz is using those Emotivas to prove a point. Chinese amps aren't in my future though. I've been burned on Chinese quality issues enough that I stay away if I can.
I suspect that the baffle shape has to do with managing diffraction effects. However, it's quite likely that another shape can do just as well, so for those folks who are considering the basic design, don't limit yourself to the specific shape. But be mindful of any serious issues your newly-thought-of shape might introduce.:)
Edits: 10/16/14
To me, the main value of the reviews is that, based on your own experience and opinions expressed by the reviewer, you kind of "get to know" him - and that helps to establish certain degree of trust. Not literally, of course, but after a while you know whose opinion is more likely to resonate with your own - and whose you can safely ignore.
Case in point: I certainly feel somewhat "in tune" with M. Fremer's opinions, after his less than flattering Bryston monos review.
With that in mind, and based on the coverage by Herb Reichert that you linked to, I know whose opinion I need to take with a huge grain of salt.
the "perfect amp" was an Emotiva XPA 200 ($399). - a'aight then, whatever you say.
So many systems have all these good audiophile traits but play music in a woeful joyless manner - again, whatever. Not my experience at all.
Experiences hopefully widen as one grows older. However, it's tough to do if you're locked into preconceived notions, who's opinions you can blindly trust/reject, and other such things, etc.
There's a growing number of positive comments about the LXMini debut at RMAF, so there's no need to base your preconceived negativity on this particular Stereophile report. IMO.
Get out and hear a pair for yourself. Linkwitz will likely be demo them again at the next Burning Amp Festival.
p.s. I also think you're taking the Emotiva reference by the SP reviewer out of context. (Not seeing the forest for the trees). There's also the fact that the LX521 (and LXMini) can sound different/better when used with top-shelf amplification (which is what prompted my reply in the first place).
Could these speakers be driven by a robust 24 watt SET amplifier? Does it need high power SS?
I think I spent enough bandwidth trying to explain it, but whatever.
I hogged that center chair in the front row for almost an hour on Friday and was happy to hear they sounded so good as I had sprung for the drivers and plans about 6 months ago and hadn't heard them till the show. Madisound sold quite a few kits after last years show and I would bet they'll do well again this year. It was the busiest room of that size that I saw all day and people seemed genuinely interested. I would agree, some pretty good bang for the buck.
Hey, are you gonna have them done by Christmas? (I'm just askin'. ;) )
BTW, I hope you got that tree out of the kitchen sink - it didn't really add to the decor.
:)
Probably not by Christmas. Rotator cuff surgery in July has me pretty much one-armed for a while yet and I haven't been able to work on the speakers since you were here. After hearing them though I'll probably try to get started here again shortly.
They should be done with the construction/repair business on the house in another week.
Not questioning what you heard, but "world class speaker and the amplification to drive them" - is the amplification, 5 channel Emotiva amps, "world-class" too? In what sense - watts per dollar? Watts per pound?
Or the speakers themselves are so head and shoulders above anything else, that even the middle-of-the-road (to put it nicely) Emotiva amplification can't f.. up the sound enough, for you to be able to notice it?
Or - and I'm REALLY going on a limb here - amplification doesn't matter much at all? Because after the ASP module does its thing, nothing is going to be able to make much of a difference anyway?
I said world class speakers, not amplification. I'm aware that the 5 channel Emotiva amps are not top tier performers. That being said, the system as a whole sure sounded good, which makes me question just how important amplification and for that matter, the front end is. Of course I wonder how much better the LX521's would've sounded with a better front end and amps. I'm sure the sound would've been elevated that much more.
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Edits: 10/15/14
the superiority of his speakers.
Btw, they can be used with either an ASP or DSP.
I'm not an open baffle advocate. If I do build speakers it will probably be a D'Appolito in a closed box. But I've heard it at a friend's place with Parasound 3 channel amps. They replaced Sophia 3's and the sound is excellent. If they fit my environment they are easily one of the very best buys in medium large speakers, if not the best buy.
That was a room I missed out on and regret. I liked the open baffle designs from Spatial and Emerald Physics.
Too much business travel. Wish I could go, I miss it.
P
As I slowly slip into the dark cesspool of audiophalia neurosis. . . .
My speaker building site
Hi -
Does anyone have a link to an audio site that covered the show and reviewed select rooms they would share?
Craig
OK, I just saw the link in JUSTACODERS post. Missed it earlier. . .
I go because it is close to my home but otherwise would not go out of my way to cram into packed elevators and wander down crowed hallways to hear equipment in hot stuffy rooms that are not ideal listening environments. It is really more of a visual experience to see what is new and maybe get lucky enough to hear a few real world examples of great gear. Can Jam gets bigger every year and provides good listening for the head crowd but some of the super expensive systems were just plain meh. Went home and cranked up my old system, fired up the legal and was quite happy in knowing that new is only just new and not necessarily better.
nt
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
I attended this year and had a very good time. Hadn't been in a few years and went with a few friends. I guess this made it more fresh and lively for me. Regulars seemed to think it was more lightly attended with fewer exhibitors. Some mumbled about the lack of affordable gear with far too many rooms for 1%ers only. These rooms, while vastly out of reach and laughably overpriced, make for a good baseline when I visit rooms with gear I can actually afford. When all was said and done, I came home feeling confident I didn't have to do anything to my current set-up. The one mildly interesting (and affordable) option was the Spatial 15" open baffle speaker. Now those I'd love to get in for an audition.
nt
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Although the number of rooms continues to slowly decline (IMO) I felt the number of show goers this year was up, and to me more important, the energy level was much more positive. People actually paying attention to the sound instead of just room hopping. More women, more younger people [i.e. proportionally less gray hair].
Hardly any video [just 2 rooms I think]. Still quite a few turntables, but few were playing them. Lots and lots of headphones on display [and their associated amps], even outside the CanJam area. Lots of new small brands - some of which actually sound pretty good.
I've been feeling that RMAF has been declining steadily for 3 or 4 years. More and more gloom. Fewer people. Fewer rooms. Energy level really loooow, especially compared to Newport. But this year I felt much less of a need for anti-depressants after the show :-)
We tried to take a photo of every component in every room. I think we got perhaps 98% of the show... So, you CAN see the show with no crowds [but, you know, with no sound either :-/ ] ....
Bravo!
.
... all of the 149 rooms are up.
I think we only missed 3 (and the PS Audio Sprout room - luckily the Sprout was also at CanJam)
Mostly what's left is CanJam and about a dozen Booths
Thanks a bunch.
Did anyone visit room #482 featuring Dared Audio amps and Rogers loudspeakers?
I did. I spent a fair amount of time listening to the Rogers LS 5/9 with the Dared Saturn SET. Very nice. So nice, in fact, that I gave a lot of thought to purchasing a pair of the speakers. $3800.
That's good to hear. Thanks for the info.
.
Thanks a bunch.
The PS Audio Sprout was in a room separate from the main PSAudio setup. Did you get a picture?
I have a couple of friends there at PS Audio and I guess they did not want to seem pushy because no one told me about the room being for the Sprout.
I mean, there were people going in there [and, you know, coming back out] but it seemed more like a private viewing...
And I even visited their large room 3 times (it was one of the better sounds at the show)
Argh!
nt
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Little OTO integrated is a gem.
You did a beautiful job. Thanks.
Imagine you are King for a day. No. Three days.
You're a King and you are an audiophile. You command that 1000, no, wait, 2000 pieces of high fidelity gear be brought together for you to hear.
The gear is to be assembled into well over 100 stereo systems. Each is to be setup in a different room. Plugged in. Warmed up. And have music playing all day long [but you forget to say 'good' music. Doh! :-)].
There are even to be people standing by to answer any questions you may have about the gear.
Then you invite several thousand of your friends to join you as you listen to this gear all day for three days.
This is a high-end audio show.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
.....just not in the mood this time.
agree on your general comments about the trend of relevance, nice that you felt an uptic.
mikel
Hey Mikel, aren't you in SoCal, or am I thinking of someone else? If you are, did you go to AES?
:)
Steve,
you visited me in North Bend, where I still am.
I'm not an AES guy at all......I got the room in the barn you took pictures of an put on your website.
and btw, lots of changes on my end, time for you to visit again. ;-)
mikel
Thanks for the reply! I'm not 'Steve'.
And, ya shoulda been at AES! Some excellent papers, products, etc.
:)
... and several others.
Hey, who knew? The graph was just going down and down...
Talking about mood... also kind of dreaded going originally, but we kind of have to considering that it is right here. Just have to manage to get in the car and point it South for about an hour. This is actually harder than it sounds :-)
I've never been to the Newport show. Isn't that later in the year? I have family in O.C. SoCal so it might be a worthwhile trip if I can break away from work.
i hope to see you there. i always go and if you like i can email you my cell #.
...regards...tr
Its at the very end of May. They say it has not rained there during that time of year in 1000 years...!
...even though the rooms aren't the best for audio, you CAN hear the difference between some very nice systems and mid-fi posers trying to be high end.
I never liked the Edge room... never liked the Audio Note Kit (ANKITS) room. The flagship Peachtree Grand Integrated X-1 sounded harsh. That was a couple years ago. Oh look! Peachtree dropped the price from $4499 to $3499.... still too pricey for the bad sound.
The larger rooms generally have a sonic advantage.
Yes, it was crowded even a couple years back. Tip: take the elevator all the way to the top floor, make your rounds, then WALK down the stairs to the next lower level, make your rounds, and repeat working your way down the stairs. Otherwise you'll spend way too much time in huge lines trying to get an elevator. This was true at the Marriott, not sure about the other hotel.
Shame on you.
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....Maybe next year.
nt
.
.
It's too crowded.
And yet despite the look on my face, you're still talking.
Elevators still slow on the tower side, but I've seen worse.
Lots of DSP 'room correction' going on. Easy to hide amid all of the boxes that now seem to be part of many high-end systems with some form of digital playback.
Please expound.
Watch
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Too funny. I'm sure the parking lot was full of Cadillacs.
Hook, line, sinker, steak for dinner tonight...
Great clip, great comparison.
The billet aircraft grade aluminum is, perhaps, a premium upgrade?
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
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