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not productive of your time?
thanks for interest.
roger wang
Follow Ups:
I often wonder why ours is such a critical, judgmental society in general. Perhaps entertainment's constant need for "conflict" in the story line? Perhaps because we feel we have so little control over our own lives that we feel compiled to try and control other's? Perhaps because we sense an emptiness, and want to make ourselves feel better, and it's easy to do so by comparing ourselves to someone "worse"?
Whatever causes our nearly continuous stream of judgement, it sure is tiresome, isn't it?
I have never heard that criticism before. Most everyone I know loves (or likes) music to some degree. I always seem to "wow" them here and there with my setup. I suppose if you spend more time, effort, or money on any venture to the neglect of family and self, then there may be a problem. But I have always been encouraged (especially as a child) in interests, hobbies and anything using imagination. Imagination and art is sorely lacking in modern society. We get "stuff" thrown at us from all over, but what do we create? I am a composer, even if it represents only a musical diary of myself, even if I stink at it, I would be lost without my art. I know a lot of folks who don't apply themselves to anything other than work, money,and the sound bite of the day. I cant understand that. We all should be encouraged (and encourage others) to use whatever magic we have and try new things, creative things. Audio is a great hobby. We bring our own art into it as we find synergy in our components and room walls. We hear the art of others as we play the music. We appreciate the art of the speaker and electronics visionaries that have developed the gear. Anyone that delves into any hobby is really able to appreciate the humanity associated with it (subconsciously it may be our quest). Others that touch the surface don't see this. After all, it is human imagination that creates....well... everything!
.
.
A hobby produces enough Oxytoxin to produce happiness. Perhaps Dopamine too. This makes an audiophile receptive towards social interactions. An audiophile may spend a long time on his/her hobby but that will never make them antisocial. Some may call it Avoidance Syndrome but the benefits towards relaxed interaction with nature are paramount.
Cheers
Bill
is definitely a killer!
By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox.
Galileo Galilei
... It is certainly one of the reasons my wife insisted on a thick & silky soft Persian rug in front of the speakers.
Smile
Sox
Right on, Soxie. Good times ahead!
Cheers
Bill
.
is any less fulfilling than reading.
...regards...tr
*
If it is intended to be productive it is not a hobby. That does not mean that it cannot be productive -- only that that is not the purpose.
I think a lot of you miss the point. I think he is saying that audio is not productive behavior because it is anti social. You are not reacting with human beings. I think that was his point.
Antisocial = sociopath
Asocial = anxious individual who stays away from other people.
navman
Sociopaths are predators. Often, they recognize that skillful and frequent interactions with other people are essential to their advancement in society. They can seem very friendly and outgoing. Only problem is, it's all about them and never about you.Hmmm...
Edits: 09/17/14
first sudz misses the point but it is interesting and provocative.
anti-social in the extreme is psychopathic
asocial - why 'anxious'?
roger wang
Anxious = shy.
.
Was it?
Lots of truth in that also if I dare say.
Does chatting with birds of a feather on internet boards count as social interaction?
I dare to say no.
So you were tipped you off to the Sociological statement posed as a question, how ???
Pretty vague way to infer something, would'nt you think ??? More likely just a case of personal confusion !
The real question though is who might I be talking about ?
Solitary is not the same thing as antisocial.When I think of antisocial I think of arrogant off-putting behavior that results in collective scorn from others in the same field of interest. Know anyone like that, Sudz? I can think of two in this asylum, both of whom tend to feel a need to "explain" what the other means.
Edits: 09/16/14
> > I think he is saying that audio is not productive behavior because it is anti socialDon't think so. From the way I read it, he's suggesting that he is aware
that someone made the criticism that the hobby is not productive, and
is now asking the forum if others have heard the same from another
source.
If you don't become the ocean, you'll be seasick every day.
—Leonard Cohen
Edits: 09/16/14
true; amazing how many have projected into the matter.
yet, sudz is bringing another dimension on how sociable the hobby is; i experienced that matter on the vinyl asylum when i posted an innocent quiz-like question.
roger wang
...
The same could be said about opening your posts.
so don't, Unproductive Poster (and sudz speaks well and correctly of anti-social reactions in the hobby .... though not my intention in posting nor the content of the posting).
roger wang
It is productive for me. That's when I rest and rejuvenate my mind and spirit.....
.
Actually it really is'nt a criticism of "the audio hobby" but a personal
criticism of how someone feels "you" should be spending "your" time.
It really is'nt about what was said,but what was'nt said. This is if this was relayed to you "personally". This sounds like a "communication problem" that you should fix.
If this was'nt something you were involved with,it is nothing more than someone with an "Axe to grind" or a "troll". Why would anyone concern themself with that when they could happily "waste" their time on their "Audio Hobby"
I'm having fun. To each their own.
Nt
You guys don't actually don't actually attempt to engage"Soapy" (given his normal level of comments; It's probably more appropriate to address him as this) in discussion do you ?
Now for that you could easily find a more productive way to spend your time. It would be great if we could find a way to make him a permanent resident of the "Big Brother"
House .
Your question is very short and, as can be seen by many of the answers posted, not very sharp.
I have opined on sites such as these for decades that audio is not an imaginative or creative hobby unless you design or build, or both obviously, equipment.
Choosing and paying for equipment and setting up in your room falls pretty short of a creative endeavour in my opinion.
Audiophiles are to creative hobbies what masturbators are to procreation.
> > I have opined on sites such as these for decades that audio is not an imaginative or creative hobby unless you design or build, or both obviously, equipment.
Perhaps you could tell us about your builds / designs?
> > Choosing and paying for equipment and setting up in your room falls pretty short of a creative endeavour in my opinion.
> > Audiophiles are to creative hobbies what masturbators are to procreation.
And yet, here you are, 14 years and 23,000 posts later.
If you don't become the ocean, you'll be seasick every day.
—Leonard Cohen
I never said I built anything have I? I simply have respect and admiration for those amateurs who do. Moreover, I have never really considered myself an audiophile, well at least not since rational thought about record players has given way to mysteries solved by magic.
Have yourself an aesthetically pleasing day.
> > I have never really considered myself an audiophile, well at least not since rational thought about record players has given way to mysteries solved by magic.
Yet, here you are, 14 years and 23,000+ posts later.
If you don't become the ocean, you'll be seasick every day.
—Leonard Cohen
But you forget, he is so much farther advanced than the rest of us. He is just slumming here, so don't call him an audiophile. That is so beneath him......
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Oh please, I am so sorry I hurt your feelers by not sharing your beliefs.
My "feelers" are just fine. I do, however, agree that we don't share the same beliefs. And that includes more than things audio.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Unless you consider the decibel level in which she said it.
... A bag and a gag.
Carry on.
Smile
Sox
Not a productive use of time?
I DARE you to fly to my home town, observe me in the recording studio, THEN watch me bring home recordings that represent my body of work, which spans the decades from the 70's to the present.
My Soundcloud page has 35 songs on it. I cover some of my favorites, but the majority of my work is original.
I agree, most audiophiles sit on their asses, but I work hard to get that luxury, especially when measuring my relative success in recording studios.
http://mindseyemusic.blogspot.com/
not my criticism in the least; just wondering if others in your life have made this criticism.
thanks for interest.
i'm happy to check out your work.
roger wang
Well there goes everything in life that's not productive. I guess we can still eat and make money. Are we allowed to sleep? What a line of BS.
.
who's children don't know them and might not even care for them :) For most, balance is key.
.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I will agree to two of three of these.Seriously, I feel for those who don't enjoy this hobby or any other.
I have spent countless joyful hours in the last four+ decades listening to great music. I certainly don't see it as wasting my time.
Edits: 09/15/14
Sure Roger,
it is a reference as to how someone spends his time on a hobby/interest.
My enjoyment is productive and beneficial to my frame of mind.
-Wendell
Apparently, enjoyment is not productive for you.
the question is not one asked by me.
roger wang
"the question is not one asked by me."
You're starting to scare me a little bit. OK, I'll bite. If not you then who? Promise to do my best to comprehend.
the question is whether OTHERS have raised the issue of productiveness in the hobby.
get it (yet)?
roger wang.
"the question is whether OTHERS have raised the issue of productiveness in the hobby."
Your question and imagined issue.
"get it (yet)?"
Insulting yourself (humbling?), right?
And if you believe it, what are you doing on AA?
Sorry Roger but this seems like a pretty silly question to ask of those in the audio hobby.
"You can’t know what the “best” is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn’t any such thing." HP
as i've had to point out, it's not my criticism and i don't agree with it, but wonder if others have had to deal with it and at what level it becomes an issue.
roger wang
"...............it's not my criticism and i don't agree with it"Soooo, why bother to bring it up? If it has no validity to you, why do you care if it does for others? Is Sudz slipping you the thread topics? The two of you tend to go in a similar direction, after all.
Edits: 09/16/14
i'm forced to conclude you are not truly capable of abstract thought (beyond the most minimal levels).
Really sorry (for you).
All of life seems to be a case of what affects you/one personally, otherwise the matter/topic does not exist and does not merit discussion.
then you have to fall back on your little obsession: poster sudz.
roger wang
No one forces you to conclude anything, wangr. To assume so is to cede control of your thought process to others and deny responsibility for your own conclusions.OTOH, many of us may CHOOSE to conclude that when posters of a feather flock together, there's probably going to be bird shit everywhere.
How's that for abstract thinking?
Edits: 09/17/14
Don't be a hater!
That's hysterical, Sudz! I seem to recall a rash (an apropos term if there ever was) of insults you flung at Liz and others, childish attempts at getting attention. Are you now a convert to being nice?
Leopard, spots, yadda, yadda
Mr. Wang, thanks for reconizing that i think outside the box. It's nice to know someone on here understands me.
.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
mt
Give me rhythm or give me death!
...if the masterfully trimmed little tree is "worth" the time.
What's it worth in dollars? What's it worth in mastery? Discipline? Relaxation? Clearing ones mind from the BS "California lifestyle" - running your @$$ off every day chasing that packed calendar full of.... stuff?
If something you like doing gets you putting a lot of time into it, then it's worth the time.
I refinish speaker cabinets that could be thrown away and re-built in less time (and probably money) than it would take to build them from scratch. I hate throwing away past work into a landfill or selling it to someone else who would put it in a landfill. I like to modify and re-use cabinets I build. Everyone thinks I am crazy.
When I am doing cabinet work the last thing on my mind is what everyone else thinks..
YMMV
Cheers,
Presto
without the hobby there would be no listening to music other than live music.
Think about it.
Without the Banū Mūsā brothers mechanical musical instruments of the 9th century or the phonautograph, patented in 1857 by Parisian inventor Édouard-Léon Scott de Martinville or the mechanical phonograph cylinder, invented by Thomas Edison in 1877 and patented in 1878 the only way we would enjoy music in our homes would be to hire musicians.
Weren't these guys hobbyist?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
but i can't stand the idea of productivity in the arts (on the receiving end, i mean).
thanks for interest.
roger wang
I don't remember who said it but favorite quote of mine is, "All life is useless.".
Taking a walk is a waste of time, as is reading a novel, growing flowers, etc. What a great way to spend one's free hours.
that we must make "productive" use of our time? And who is it that has
been annointed, and by whom, to define what is productive?
My father used to say, jokingly, that there are 2 types of people: the
righteous and the un-righteous, and the righteous do the judging.
No, I've never heard it.
Now that I've pondered it, I think it is without merit, at least WRT other more mainstream hobbies, in particular watching football...
But who cares? That's the beauty of hobbies, we do them out of love, not out of necessity and so the time spent doing or even talking about them (as we are now) is golden!
Rick
We used to joke about going to Canada fishing every year. By the time you were done, you had spent 600-700 dollars and you could bring home two fish. Walleye worked out to about 85.00/lb. I guess we went for other reasons.
/
Like any hobby you pursue with enthusiasm --- you are subject to criticism from those that do not share the same interest. It’s okay, as long as the hobby does not become an obsession, which distracts you from responsibilities. Like spending time with the family.Or drives you to spend more than you should.
In the guitar world, only a finite number of ways you can play the intro to “Stairway to Heaven” --- on various guitars & amps, before the rest of the household becomes agitated.
And declares a mutiny.
I assume the same goes for listening to the same eclectic album over-and-over. Through various playback equipment.
8^)
Edits: 09/15/14 09/15/14 09/15/14
nt
odd. it would see fellow audiophiles (in A.A.) would be not asking. maybe i misunderstood.
roger wang
See Middleground's post as Exhibit A. Most anti-audiophiles see what the majority here are doing and saying here and go elsewhere after their rants are ignored. Looks like we'll always have Middleground, though. Lucky us.
.
I suppose it could be said of many pastimes. But something which enriches our lives cannot necessarily be measured in terms of productivity.
As musetap pointed out, such threads are not productive, so if that was your goal you've accomplished it. A self fulfilling prophesy, perhaps.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
you can measure for yourself how productive the answers are so far - i'd say people have much to say meaning mentally productive.
best to quote other posters than the one you did quote.
roger wang
musetap's post was relevant, so I mentioned it! It's called freedom of speech.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
because you made it so.
it has nothing to do with my original posting. try re-reading.
roger wang
We don't all see things the same way as you do. Please respect that.
We're free to express our opinions, as I did and as musetap did. Don't read them if you don't like them, and please don't try to dictate what's relevant.
And hey man, relax, it's just audio, not a matter of life and death.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
you use 'wrong' and say all are free to express their (wrong) ideas. Wrong. Don't call someone wrong and sing and dance the free expression of any ideas song. That's hypocritical (and thus wrong).
roger wong
Sorry my karma ran over your dogma.
Talk to the hand, Mr. Wrong.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Far from it.
look at some of the answers so far: it's not an unusual criticism - not saying at all that i agree with this criticism.
roger wang
is not productive unless it is reproductive. Have they never heard of pleasure for its own sake?
My time spent in this hobby has produced incredible joy, the ability to play music at a high degree of quality, learning, companionship with other like-minded hobbiests, and has provided an activity and interest I can use to the day I die.
My 92 year old mother in law never generated a single interest in her life, nor has she kept up with anything. She now sadly does nothing all day long, except eats meals and sits on the couch. I will always have this hobby to keep me busy even if old age slows me to a crawl someday.
yes, but no interests in life does not have to mean no interest in life -sadly the two go together, it seems, for your mother-in-law.
thanks for interest.
roger wang
`
Smile
Sox
.
I've heard similar comments about listening to and playing music, reading, watching sports, gardening, painting... basically any hobby.
There are those that consider any activity that doesn't earn money (or that spends it!) as nonproductive. Those people are usually boring and lack self-esteem, IMHO.
The smug jerks who would criticize in this way bore me. The best things in life don't require justification. If a thing can be justified, I probably don't want it.
"not productive of your time?"
From both family and fellow workers.... Especially from those born after 1980........
I'm just wired to enjoy and appreciate the nuances of great music.... The audio is the means to an end. Those not ensconced in the finer elements of music can see audio as a waste of time... And I understand that perspective.... But to me, it's like air and water. I can't live without it.
My readers have heard me myself say, "I wasted my time, money, and hearing" on this hobby.
One by one, my old (some as far back as the mid-90s) audio friends have (a) disowned our Stereotypical Audiophile dogma and canards; (b) gotten rid of the SA crap; and (c) acquired products which are good-looking, honest-sounding, noise-free, and cool-running. They then drop out, and spend their time on enjoying life, including music.
On one hand, I'm bummed that these old friends are no longer here on AA. OTOH, I am satisfied that, at long last, they cured themselves of this monumental waste of time, and are taking in life's pleasures.
Another common thread is the complaints about the audiophiles' lack of civility, manners, intelligence, maturity, and class. All of the name-calling, trolling, put-downs, shaming, character assassinations, flaming, and illiteracy just get old. This is why we as a community aren't able to attract new recruits, retain good people, grow the hobby, and ultimately share and enjoy the music.
The Audiophiles' DJ,
-Lummy The Loch Monster
Aha! the Seahorse HAS grown I see!
Good one
Des
.
Have heard it about such threads though.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
Nope never.
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