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In Reply to: RE: Blind-tested soloists unable to tell Stradivarius violins from modern instruments posted by newdreams on April 07, 2014 at 10:43:24
back in February with this post and there's a different side to the *unable to tell* claim.
What Really Happened...
"I was not asked to identify specifically which was the modern violin and which was the old violin; only which I preferred. If people are concluding from this study that "professional violinists can't tell the difference between modern violinist and old Italians," then I think we need a different study in which violinists are actually asked to identify that. "
Follow Ups:
You linked to a participant's account of a blind audition done in 2010 in Indianapolis.
The OP linked to a blind audition done in Paris in 2012.
As with speakers, I imagine that in a blind test, many people would be able to tell the difference between the violins, but that was not really tested.
Both tests seem to have been preference tests. Both tests produced data. People seem to draw a lot of conclusions from it.
I suppose many expected the Stradivarius violins to wipe the floor with the others, and that expectation was not supported.
However, there are too many variables to determine why that is. As was pointed out, maybe with a little tweaking which is done regularly by violinist (one of my best friends is a professional violinist), and the strings were different and perhaps no optimized. So with slight adjustments, the results might have been different. With different players, the results might have been different. On a different day, the results might have been different.
-----
"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
"Oh, you wanted me to tell the difference . Gosh, I thought you meant which I prefer . If only I'd known".
Anyway, if people don't prefer these old instruments, what justifies their price? This was the real point of the exercise.
I love the music of ... ... Gustav Mahler
$36 million for this "chicken cup"?
Bowl recently auctioned
...some people blindly believe these tests are definitive just because they're conducted blind.
The details they don't tell you about are usually the most important.
It appears the problem is with you, not those that tend to believe scientific tests.
Further, no matter the procedures, you still will claim the human ear and audiophiles are a separate category and not bound by usual results.
I subdued my ego and I found my perception of in audibility of perceptual Iof perceptual codecs about matched the scientific empirical results from populations. I. am not a special snowflake, and I'm ok.
Beliefs are a tough nut to crack.
...if you think audio DBTs are scientific, you don't understand what the word means.
Try addressing a criticism head on, MK.
Why do DBT tests NEVER reinforce your position?
Hint: you're wrong.
You remind me of the guys who (shills for oil companies) denounced tobacco testing because none of the tests were perfect.
A damn bit more perfect than pure opinion, of course.
...I have a degree in science - in a field where DBTs were first designed to be used and I have participated in them professionally.
And you?
I would be happy to debate this with you offline.
Hint: audio DBTs are a parlor trick regardless of your mistaken beliefs.
Did you read this particular constraint?
"These violins were loaned with the stipulation that they remain in the condition in which we received them -- precluding any tonal adjustments or even changing the strings." That means that, whatever happened to the old violins during their trip -- if they got jostled on the airplane, etc. -- there was no soundpost adjustment, no bridge adjustment, no check for open seams. If the strings were a little older, they were a little older. "
Parlor tricks are real crowd pleasers!
I know next to nothing about violins but these two articles do illustrate how hard it is to get at the truth (about anything) and how many will latch on to a lame "proof" if it suits their purposes.
Thanks,
Julian (as in FVA) would likely have a funny take on this. :)
...a definitive test to some.
Must have been, after all it was done blind...
someone familiar with such a prized instrument should readily recognize it's inherent special qualities. Ditto for reviewers with overhyped claims of huge differenced between 40 k amplifiers and 5 k amplifiers.
With wine there are people so astute that they not only know the brand, they also tell the vintage. And human taste is not nearly as acute as human hearing.
Keep fighting the good fight DBT deniers. I didn't read the article, but knew the usual suspects that would show up.
...not to recognize it but to chose the one you would most like to play.
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