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Music is beautiful, but we are living in a Bose era where the true music is distorted by cheap systems. I personally think audiophile grade music will catch on when our media pushes it. I see having truly high grade music systems produced by corporations like Sony as a god-send. Music is just too beautiful to ignore!
Follow Ups:
Though almost everyone _claims_ to like/love music, 99% of people _never_ sit down and listen to music to the exclusion of other activities.
1. cost
2. weirdness of people and gear
3. low priority in life
4. few available places to hear good stuff
5. lack of time / inclination
6. 4/5 work out to 'exposure'
Over the years, I've gobsmacked a few people, but few advanced past whatever nutty stuff they already owned.
My down the street neighbor has a gigantic record collection including bunches of signed albums and multiple unopened copies. He uses a record grinder out in his garage. When he heard my system he shut up and listened for 20 minutes...until his spouse 'paged' him. When I told him how much even a Rega P3 goes for? Sorry!
I didn't add it up, but I'll bet a satisfactory all-vinyl system with small powered speakers, a good TT and preamp could be had for <1400? How much than?
Too much is never enough
"mainstream" music will sound fine on a decenbt system, The "super high end" stuff really isnt any better than most mid-fi stuff TBH, they just mad it uglier and it is voiced for the music that "audiophiles", listen to. Play anything else, and they fall apart. Mostly mids and highs but no bass.. such speakers are deemed to be "flat" when in fact they rolled half the sound off...
In order to defend this, they will say that the speakers are too "revealing", then in fact, they suck, and they want to justify as to why the listen to old man's music. They balk at the notion of playing anything that was recorded electronicly, when in fact such music is often as well recorded, and 90% better recoded, mastered and performed as good as that old fogy music.
Why would a 20 year old buy a system that was made to sound its bes ton old folks music.
but if something is keeping the few who might from becoming audiophiles here's my guess as to the reasons
1. No exposure to good sounding systems in good sounding rooms at sane prices.
2. Lack of mainstream music that will sound any better on a good system than on a bad one.
3. Wives are completely dominant in the home and they won't allow anything that they don't like the looks of.
Nobody knows what to do about it. I think stores need to figure out a way to go on the road and expose people to significantly better than usual audio. I don't know how it would be done. Maybe find a somewhat quiet place near an event where the music being played would benefit from some good stereo stuff. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback but it seems the average audio shop owner is about 90 years old and longing for the sweet embrace of the grave. They can't afford to retire so we're gonna have to wait for them to die. Maybe the next generation will have the energy to figure out what to do. Does that sound cold?
I think they are terrified of looking and acting like audiophiles.
have you been to a audio show lately and saw what "WE" look like?
Not exactly what Madison Ave is pushing at the masses.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
I agree Cheap equipment is the big main thing. Mp3's sound horrible.. i don't care how well its ripped from a cd.
Ignorance.
They people (non-audiophiles) who have all heard my system, are floored by it, highly impressed, but ... later ... almost everyone get stuck some where along the path - oh I'm looking forward to building/buying something similar. One I have to say (which is contrary to most audiophile standards .. is the age 35 +/- 5 years)
The people who I think are potentials get stuck with the cost. Most do not understand the $$$$$$ amount people spend to replicate music (which itself is crazy). I recently recommended the dragonfly DAC with a set of potential headphone for someone I thought was about to take the plunge, but he just backed off even with a meager (by audiophile standards) $250 for that device.
I guess one has to be driven enough to get into the "system"
Cheers,VJ
Compact and/or portable hifi systems might offer a glimmer of hope: Headphones, binaural recordings, desktop audio.
Others don't find them uncomfortable at all, or actually LIKE wearing them.
Edits: 08/10/12
It's almost like wearing nothing at all. I found the Grado's uncomfortable due to the scratchy earpads that go over the ear instead of around like the Sennheiser's. I also find closed designs to hold in too much heat and get uncomfortable after a while.
Open aire and velvet works for me and I can comfortably wear such headphones for hours.
"Happy Listening,
Teresa."
seriously tried any phones in a couple of years. I have tried open and closed Sennheisers but, frankly, I just do not want anything on my head, top and/or sides, nor do I want to be tethered. Earphones are worse. No matter how good the sound (and that is a separate matter), it is intolerable.
N/T
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
You're right, regardless of dollars spent, it's understandable that the gear AND the proper setting up of the gear is simply too much work for a neophyte. Yesterday I read someone paid 1.6 MILLION dollars for a rare edition of a DIME!! Man, I'm in the wrong hobby!! When audiophilia becomes as simple as coin-collecting, it'll be a brand new day!;)
What makes you think coin collecting is so simple?
I've never collected coins but common sense.....Compare the unpacking and setting up of an audio system to buying a coin, slipping it in a coin album/book, and putting it away. Perhaps the complexities and nuances of coin collecting are deep but....
I dont try and "replicate" music with any system, including my own. I do not know what the music originally sounded like in the studio or at the concert and I frankly do not care. And neither should the audiophile.
even a live recording is still that, a recording, and there is only so much the human ear can hear from any music and in any situation.
I do try to get the the best soud for my noney and to be honest a decntly built set of $99.99 bookshelf speakers doesent sound that much different than a $300-400.00 bookshelf speakers, if the manfacturer competently build and designed the speakers. You will get a better looking cabinet for the extra money but not nessicarily better drivers
I think another reason is a lack of exposure to what might be considered "good sound" B&M stores are becoming increasingly rarer and the Magnolia room in Best Buy is at the far end of the store and consistently the least crowded room to be found.
The other day I was driving on a local highway when I noticed a Seimans furniture store that had closed several years ago was being renovated, and in passing I thought the sign on the building read "Strictly Audio" and was happy for a day or two until I passed it again and discovered the sign acutally read "Stickly Audi" I should have known better, needless to say I was a little bummed
It is an irrational, selfish hobby. I love it but I don't fool myself about that.
.
"...Inattentive symptoms
Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork
Has difficulty keeping attention during tasks or play
Does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
Does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace
Has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
Avoids or dislikes tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork)
Often loses toys, assignments, pencils, books, or tools needed for tasks or activities
Is easily distracted
Is often forgetful in daily activities
Hyperactivity symptoms:
Fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
Leaves seat when remaining seated is expected
Runs about or climbs in inappropriate situations
Has difficulty playing quietly
Is often "on the go," acts as if "driven by a motor," talks excessively
Impulsivity symptoms:
Blurts out answers before questions have been completed
Has difficulty awaiting turn
Interrupts or intrudes on others (butts into conversations or games)"
When I was a kid it was cool to own a stereo system. Young people aren't Interested in stereo system anymore. They would rather play video games or be part of social media. As much as I love audio I have to admit it doesn't have a hipness factor. In fact It's really for squares. The last audio show I went to the average age was 55 and the music they play was from the 40's and 50's. No young people want to be part of that.
nt
All my life I have never counted another audiophile among my friends. Never. So what's changed? I'm the only one.That's all I've ever known.
...I met a couple of audiophiles back in the day and we decided to start an audio club.
Grew to 300 members and is occasionally still active today.
Hang out in your local audio shop, if there is still one.
Go to Central here and ask if there's anyone in you neighborhood.
Assuming you want to meet more of us...
a
To the degree where the masses don't get much of an opportunity to experience and appreciate high-fidelity audio playback.What got us into high-end audio in the past was hearing familiar music that sounded demonstrably lifelike compared to what we were used to hearing before. This is what inspired us to strive for high quality sound reproduction into our homes.
But the environment for such experience to occur has been absent in recent time.
Over the past two decades, the overprocessing in popular music, combined with lack of exposure in alternative music, has stifled any chances of such aural epiphany occurring with people today.
The lack of high-quality playback in recent consumer audio has compounded this problem.
In fact, the lack of exposure to naturally-produced music (in relative terms) and its playback has gotten to the point where many people don't even understand the mere concept of high-fidelity playback. (Even older non-audiophiles have understood the concept.) This is what's really sad, in my humble opinion.
In order to get one interested in high-end audio, he/she first must have an interest in alternative music, in which artistic nuance and capturing it in high-fidelity playback can be appreciated.
Edits: 08/09/12
+1
these people have a rare condition called "Music Lover". They are to be admired and envied over the planet as they will save tons of money being happy with what they have.
...having a passion for music - a lot do - and sitting down in front of a high end rig and listening to it.
That's the way most of us discovered that we could get closer to the music we loved with better equipment.
If all they hear is MP3s through iPod earbuds, they will never know what they're missing.
Too much stimuli from TV and the other media. Our immediate awareness is very limited and just focusing on TV takes up all our attention. With our attention filled to capacity, there is little desire to try a new media (audio) until it's OKed with the current norms in society.
nt
I never have and never will understand the disconnect between music-lovers and good sound. Of course, anyone hanging out at an audio website understands, but I hang out at various music websites and Igottatellya, the overwhelming majority simply doesn't give a hoot! ....and I try! I truly try to have dialogs with some of my cyber-pals (I've been hanging at some of these sites for over a decade!) about experiencing what they love, at a higher level but....they simply can't be bothered! Elizabeth's post perfectly explains what's happened in a historical context but I still wonder if this is more of an American thing. For some reason I've always had the impression that our hobby's doing better in other countries. Perhaps some of the pro's in the know that hang here could shed some light on this angle.
...the list goes on and on. There are a million things to do with one's time, listening to music is just one of them.
My gal says she was keen on me but when I took her to my place for the first time and she heard my stereo - that clinched it !
When I heard that (several years later)- I knew I'd picked the right girl!
a normal life
Folks my age have other priorities and think Sirius/XM radio is just fine. They don't have the time or the inclination to listen at home.
Most 20 somethings I know care not for any higher res than Mp3. They think iPods are high fidelity. They are more concerned about how many stolen tracks of music they have downloaded. It's a competition.
There used to be lot of great decent mid-fi sound equipment around. Some of the upper-end midfi stuff (flagship receivers, top of the line mid-fi components) often rivaled the stuff in the high-end boutique stores. THere used to be mid-fi STEREO SHOPS. When megastores came around (Future shop, Circuit city, Best Buy, even Canada's ill fated A&B Sound) they had WONDER mid-fi selection and functional sound rooms. This is gone. Now the sound rooms are pathetic, improperly set up - if they exist at all. Mid-fi receivers are just items on a shelf now. Nobody takes the time to set up a system and nobody cares to look at one.
So, I think as we see erosion of the middle class, we see erosion of the mid-fi stereo system. Many people are just happy with home theatre in a box or earbuds. Nobody cares about flagship receivers and "better quality amps" anymore - in fact, big home theatre seems to be passe with friends who own spec homes and don't want to 'clutter up the aesthetic of the living room'. Wives hate black components more than ever. People want sound to be invisible and as long it makes noise, it's good enough. What passes for a subwoofer in most mid-fi shops makes we want to laugh or just vomit.
I think audiophiles were hard on mid-fi, but it was the last link to the common joe have "pride" in his stereo. Now the gap is larger and I think it's a stretch to get people to jump from earbuds/home theatre in a box to separate high end components.
That's my thoughts on it. 2 cents, maybe 3.
Cheers,
Presto
I noticed Future Shop carries some higher end brands of loudspeakers now. Energy, Klipsch and Martin Logan come to mind. However, I went into their demo area once and found speakers mated to less quality electronics and poorly set up. Also, there is so much white noise in a Futureshop that it would be impossible to do any critical listening. You would be hearing Martin Logans best ESL speakers do worse than Samsung's HT in a box system.
There are always more Music lovers than Audiophiles , They don't look like it but there are those of the younger generation that love there music and listen to it more than us! as its always with them, as an Audiophile I've noticed music is a pursuit a dream, a release and at times frustrating and filled with hate and at a moment of disgust we would rather do without it! Ahh! but there's the rub its a passion and not all are passionate about music.Don't fret! we are still here and we will always be the minority and never the majority.
You can choose to be an audiophile at any price level.
What is keeping more people from spending thousands of dollars on a bicycle and all the accessories?
What is keeping more people from spending thousands of dollars on kitchen appliances? Didn't know you could?
What is keeping more people from spending private time building model railroads, or stamp collecting, or mastering Karate, or learning new languages?
Don't blame society's current trends or equipment costs on how people focus their attentions and interests. People will always spend what they feel comfortable spending on things that interest them.
Yes, that's it!
What a transcendingly dull world this would be if we all had the same passions.
Rick
Modern young audiophiles are interested in 2 inch speakers. 2 inches from their ears.And yes, they do care seriously about sound, but are much less patient with audiophilia nervosa tweakage.
And modern technology is not screwed up, and high enough bit rate perceptual coding (256kb/s and up) is plenty good. The limit is the processing and choices in the original recordings, which is not a technological problem.
Edits: 08/09/12 08/09/12
Some folks just don't care as much as others. Most of my buddies are music lovers and they are quite happy to sit and listen to my system. In their own home, they are restricted either by finances or spouse.
Sometime back I gave my friend a killer system to listen to. Amber amplifier, preamp, cdp and my Snell E speakers. He was beside himself! A month later he told me he was returning the system because his wife thought the speakers were to big! His house is sparsely decorated w/ mostly run of the mill used furniture. I just shook my head and jokingly asked him what jar his balls were in :)
Three things at least:
A much broader range of distractions/entertainments than existed from the late 1950s through the late 1970s.
Less money, people are poorer in inflation corrected dollars
Less free time
The rest of the population is too smart to get sucked in like we did....
Sanity and a normal life.
N/T
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
...while watching movies totally different event. I even remember in the seventies we used to sit around and listen to the records...
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
No more needs to be said.
Liz and Tony made some great remarks, which ring true IMO.
Folks and young enthusiasts are approaching things differently. Add the nose dived economy and frictional income, the rules for the majority have changed.
In talking with the new intern here at work, its amazing how differently he and others approach things now. He loves music and is VERY bright and knowledgeable. He loves the handful of vintage stereo gear hes come upon. But his real driving force is well designed and reviewed "pro" audio gear. IMO that cult following never really disappeared and I would venture to guess, held strong with good reason.
Nowadays, allot of smart and innovative electronic designers and manufacturers and focusing there efforts and marketing to pro / prosumers market. They know there products are good, know they cant (and dont wish to) compete with the likes of many multi thousand "audiophile" gear. They design a good product, with adequate parts quality in an enclosure thats affordable to manufacture and practical to sell.
IMO its a demographic that shows allot of promise and room to grow and compete with one another without betting the farm in the process of. If one read forums that are focusing on whats come out in the mass industry and not just "audiophile" gear, they praise gear thats affordable and effective. Allot of which, high end is one to two grand, and lots of interest and testing / use is given to sub thousand gear.
Id like to add, this is not to say there is no good reason for "audiophile" gear. But as so many manufactures choose to focus on MEGA buck priced gear that CLEARLY has to chance of working class folks paying any attention to it. Only those of us who are working class will chose to spend multi thousand on a piece of gear to use for classic listening stereos. We are a shrinking demograph. Oh well. Lots of gear at the bottom and top of the $ food chain.
My guess is allot of young music enthusiasts look at
Sweetwater
Casio Music
Musicians Friend
B&H
so on...
And as more and more folks sell off their excess collected vintage gear that may find its way into young hands, so long as its competitive with affordable pro gear. Who knows...
The enthusiast scene is alive in well. It just doesnt relate closely with what many "audiophiles" perceive.
We all arrived here by having somewhat different circumstances that may or may not have revolved around not only hearing but truly enjoying better sound.
A few of my Son's friends are buying their favorite music on LP and bringing them to our home to listen to them. Night before last one bought Radiohead's "In Rainbows" LP and they compared the LP to the up sampled CD.
It may be that these circumstances or types of exposure have become to few to come by. How many of us had a similar exposure at the local brick and mortar store thats now gone? On the other hand how many moderns can sit in front of a stereo and simply listen without feeling foolish or multi-tasking.
crap. EDM (Electronic Dance Music) (some dude pushing play on his laptop) was everywhere. Bands playing to recorded rhythm tracks. Terrible sound in general. For the most part, young people listen to earbuds and MP3s and playing their music on good systems makes it sound crappier. Basically.
Oh, and they have destroyed their ears with their music.
.
“Terrible sound in general.”
Just like with home hifi, the live sound market has been “educated” about what works best for live sound based on what the manufacturers make and sell.
In another area of large scale sound, it is possible by using a totally different approach to get very different results.
If you have facebook and headphones on your computer, go to the link and then to “posts by others” and click “see all”. Then scroll down to the video posed by Mike and watch that with headphones on.
That was 700 feet from the speaker system, in an 80,000 seat stadium and it sounds the same (great)everywhere..
http://www.facebook.com/DanleySoundLabs?ref=ts
Just part of life's rich pageant.
Rick
I have been going to Lolla for years. 5 years ago they still had bands that played instruments. There really is a standard for being able to, say, play a guitar or a bass. That ability is just about gone. Don't get me wrong, I like Passion Pit and M83 as much as the next guy, but it still is crap.
They said the same about Liszt and Ravel.
Good one.
Those older folks are dead and now I am one of the older folks. My Grandmother wouldn't let my mother go to square dances when she was a teenager since she believed the violin was an instrument of the devil.To me most modern rock music sounds like distortion and noise, and that is what my folks said about my music when I was a teenager and I couldn't and still can't hear what they were talking about, as I think 1960's and 1970's rock is great. By the same token I think young kids think their music sounds great and to them it does, so I think it is a generational thing. Thus I refuse make judgement calls on anyones music going forward or backward.
"Happy Listening,
Teresa."
Edits: 08/09/12
Right you are, Elvis Pelvis gyrating around on the Ed Sullivan show Sunday nights and that's exactly what my dad called him, I'd forgotten...
He wasn't as funny as the English guy doing the passing-out-ceremony but I was young and perhaps not of the proper gender to appreciate his finer points. But I like him now! Our library has the soundtrack of Blue Hawaii and it's great, especially the alternate takes...
Old age and dry rot setting in?
Rick
Liszt I can understand, but Ravel? Other than Daphnis & Chloe, it seems to be the thing to excite the sex for lizards.
It could just mean that the decline has been going on longer than we thought. :)
Nothing new in that, bands have been doing that since the '80s.
Like Sisters Of Mercy or Echo and the Bunnymen (in this case Echo was the name they gave to their drum machine).
The problem is that there is a lot less money in making music these days because the kids buy video games instead. The total amount of revenue from these things has remained relatively stable, it is just that while the market share of music reduced the share of games has increased accordingly.
they prefer aural entertainment which is very different.
Aural entertainments seem to be enjoyable (to those who like it) on very limited ability systems.
Music was popular when it was the most easily availed pop art form. Most people prefer visual stimulation and that is what takes precedence now that it is relentlessly available.
If the "feelies" are perfected (simply) listening to music is dead.
nt
That was my answer as well! :)
Thankyou and amen. It wouldn't be so irritating (this endless "sudzing" by him and his ilk) if there was even an iota of the sense that the OPs actually gave a shit about the answer(s) to their latest posers. They're just a bunch of puppeteers gleefully revelling in the fact that when they pull the strings, the marionettes fall all over themselves to respond to the utterly disingenuous queries. Pathetic computer powertripping by a bunch of faceless weanies safely tucked away in an upstairs bedroom at mom and dad's house where nobody can get to them and where they will, undoubtedly, live forever in their sorry little fantasy worlds.
Thankyou for (unwittingly) providing me with an avenue to express my distaste for what I view as an ongoing abuse of the AA forums format.
.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Think of all the hobby's pass times etc about and how many are of interest to you. Not much for cat fancying or reenacting golfing skydiving knitting etc. Face it its a small costly niche hobby that's mostly home based and not shared. Its not going to lite the world on fire.
Sitting in front of a stereo system and actually "listening" will never be in vogue. Its beyond the actual gear/system or prices.
Today's average Joe has way too many other distractions be it life in general, technology and maybe even the way popular music in general is presented. Music is more of a visual "package" these days with over the top performers/performances and the masses just don't care about perfect audio quality.
More so than it was in the 50-70's since there were fewer distractions and
smaller leaps in technology.
The computer and TV just might have a little to do with it.
I saw an a news clip of a texting competition held in NYC. Thats way more interesting than hearing nice music!
Someone under 40-45 could care less.
Edits: 08/09/12
Hi-Fi is a Hobby with minority interests always has been always will be. 50's to 80's were mostly golden years. However it never ceases to amaze me as to how much very expensive Hi-Fi is being produced, seems there are a lot of folks out there with more money than commonsense otherwise the mags & manufacturers could not exist.
Music is still important to the over 45s and many of those are now at a point in their careers which leaves them a fair bit of disposable income.
Sadly most people get stuck with the music they listened to when they were around 21 for the rest of their lives.
Hence you get lots of expensive audio systems and a lack of good new music.
Man, the arrogance of audiophiles, huh?
Just take a look at all the headphone related gear, most reasonably priced, that's on the market. Crazy!
I'd say that most of those folks could be considered "audiophile", if by "audiophile" you mean someone who both digs their music and tries to get the best sound quality they can afford.
Unless I missed something and there's a ticket price barrier one has to achieve in order to be an "audiophile". I consider people chasing the unobtainable (read: $$$) audiophools, not audiophiles.
But that's just me.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
Do you mean those, as Elizabeth points out, that believe that any system that costs less than $20-40K is junk? Or those that spend large amounts of time on internet chat sites or reading mags or discussing audio gear with audiobuddies or attend all the shows?
Or do you mean those people who appreciate good music reproduction, have bought a modest but musically compelling system and are content to build up their music collection rather than upgrade their cables?
I promise you the second subset is alive and well, growing all the time. The first? Well, that group will continue to get smaller and smaller. There's nothing wrong with audio as an all-encompassing hobby. It just doesn't seem to be attracting much young blood. As Paully said, there's just too much competition out there. And as Elizabeth said, it's too expensive to compete with other audiophile's view of what's good and what's not. The cost of admission may be fairly low but the cost of competing is enormously high.
Audiophiles are people unusually sensitive to and passionate about the sonic virtues of music, recorded or live. That's my definition and by it I am one.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but price is not the primary focus of that sort of "audiophile", results are. Naturally price can become an issue at some point especially with speakers but usually time, effort and skill will carry the day.
The expression "high-end", on the other hand, now seems to simply mean expensive rather than especially good performing although at least some of it is. Expensive is an attribute itself to some people and the expression 'audio jewelry' is especially apt. Even here there are many posters who are willing to pass judgement on systems based solely upon their cost. "Mid-Fi" is ALWAYS based upon cost, never performance.
That's not audiophillia, more like mammonphillia! But as everyone knows: humans just don't meet Spec...
Rick
Who wants to be obsessed about stuff rather than what it's for.
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Visual media, and our brains are wired to just love flashes and movement, has taken over. iPhone's, iPads, computers, Internet, gameboys, Nintendo, movies, television. Audio is swamped in a sea of visual competition. That is the modern world, so oh we'll.
How boring it must be to sit there in the middle of a room just listening to music when life today has so much more to offer.
Yep, if people were out rock climbing, kayaking, gong to a museum, whatever, that would be one thing. But the media people occupy their time with may be more "stimulating" in terms of the brain parts they tickle, but certainly they are nowhere near as enriching. At least to me. Reruns of the Simpson on a state of the art home theater system or Mozart in near perfect sound. What tickles your fancy?
Love of music does not equal love of music quality. Heavily signal compressed tracks, the 'lo-fi' movement, plus a post-Napster mentality that means music is valueless means the means whereby music happens is almost immaterial.
I don't buy the whole 'audio got expensive' argument. There's always been inexpensive audio equipment, it's just that faced with spending money on anything apart from a set of headphones has been rendered obsolete.
Back in the 1950's 1960's 1970's folks interested in music could look at equipment they could afford. It might have been a little expensive, but just about anyone could own a top notch system.
This was true all through the 50's 60's and 70's.
So folks discovered the better sounding stuff than others, but we all had a reasonably good systems (foor the time) for not too much cash.
Even stereo consoles were cool.
And back then not much competition for time. TV was just a few channels, and generally folks did not have too many distractions.Then the 1980's and suddenly ALL the prices started skyrocketing. (Curious this was also the time cables started becoming a boutique item)
A lot of stuff suddenly was doubling in price.
The 1990s and later the whole 'high end' was born, where millionaires might baulk at blowing a half million... But COULD on a system.
Before the 1980s.. the absolute top price might have been in the $40,000 range. after, one part could be that much easy.Also by the 1990s computers and computer or console games took over the young. Plus cable TV now gave 200 channels instead of three or four.
And everyone had stuff to do. Leasure time evaporated.Aside from all that back in the 50's AM radio was king on tube Am sets. The little Japanese transistor radios, and car AM.
Then FM was added in. Cassettes gave rise to portable music you could carry rather than a radio.
Then CD came along. then Ipods..
All sorts of people still listen to music, no problem.The problem now is the insane way 'audiophile' is marketed.
Anything less than megabuck stuff is called junk.
If you were starting out? do you want to spend a few thousand, and have it all be called junk? then cables, the need for spending money on them instead of just using the ones stuff comes with. Why? becuase no one would use that crap.
And it goes on. What ordinary person would get into this shit we call high end, or even stero components anymore. No sane person.
Way too much information overload, all of that information contradicts itself all the time, anyone starting out has no chance to get in cheap and be able to hold their head up and be happy. Everything is a giant messed up mush of bullshit.So who would want to bother??
I can remember when i was 15 and got my first equipment, I knew it was good stuff. Now, anyone new is just lost at sea. And why bother? All their friends have Ipods, and are happy.
So it is entirely our own fault, for becoming a nitch product, which has marginalized itself out of business. Except for Ipod docks, and computer music, and downloading MP3s.
So we F*ed ourselves. We became so specialized we are becoming extinct.
Edits: 08/09/12
You must accept that being audiophile is just a hobby which does not interest most people, I have many well heeled friends who like music go to Concerts but they would never buy any Hi-Fi despite being impressed with my system when they visit they mostly want to talk and I end up turning my system off. The big mystery is that the magazines are so full of very expensive equipment someone must be buying it, if not these firms and magazines could not exist. I do know that many high end makers are exporting to Russia & China despite most hi-fi being made in China giving huge profits to many well known Firms like Quad etc.
Edits: 01/25/13
And not only do we stun prospective customers with $20,000 interconnects, we're still doing things the way we did in 1980 and who but a boomer is going to be interested in that? HP mentioned passing a hi end store and seeing not one pair of headphones, not one iPod dock.
The equivalent would be teenaged me getting a copy of Stereo Review in 1970 that was full of stuff about shellac 78's and mono. Except that the speakers would have cost $100,000, half the price of the pair of Wilsons I just read about in TAS, and the 78's would have been audiophile ones, pressed on virgin shellac.
The irony is there's more great audio equipment at better prices than there has ever been -- but it gets lost in the noise.
Great post!!!!!!
navman
I dont own a bose surround speaker/ lifestyle system, never will.
Ipod docks & headphones Don't mind so much...
A Bad Recording or a Badly encoded Audio file will sound bad on any speaker. Even on my $59.99 Computer speakers I can tell a low bit-rate mp3 or WMA to a high bit rate one.
They aren't "lost at sea." They're lost in terms of aspirational expectations. That's a fancy way to say that if people have been fed MacDonalds for long enough they won't question it or even know that better, even affordable, options exist.
And that's perfectly cool with MacDonalds and Bose.
The problem is how to create an atmosphere of rising expectations.
I mean, the battle was lost over the CD. If you didn't dare to speak up when the CD came out, it was a slippery slope from there.
Hard to say that an MP3 in any way resembles hi-fi.
:-)!
Note that a post in response is preferred.
Warmest
Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
and the associated BS that came along with that attitude.
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
N/T
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
*
Agree 1000%.
Back in those days, with analog components there was a direct connection between what one had and what one heard. There was no 44/16 "ceiling" and unknown (at the time) forms of distortion (the "J" word was yet to hit the scene). When digital was introduced there was no more pure sound, just various forms of impure sound, disconnecting the previous coupling between money spent and quality sound. My late wife referred to CD sound as coming out of a "black hole" compared to LP sound, and this was on a high end system in the early 90's. The "high end" was an attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, which was correctly perceived by potential customers as a scam.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. All of my new audio components are pro audio products. I have bypassed the "high end" market entirely. (This may not be the best solution for people lacking a technical background, as these products are designed to be sold to customers who know how to correctly set them up and operate them.)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
No we had to get by with the "W" and "F" words...
R.
As we know, J can depend on the music, particularly with AES/SPDIF. Generally speaking that is not true with W and F, where these depend only on the transport and physical media. (This may not be strictly true in the case of LP playback where the needle drag may depend on the modulation in the groves and where there is correlation between warp wow and VTA induced tracing distortion.)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
.
Way back when I was a youngster, if someone began to develop audiophile tendancies they had a very limited database to search before dipping their toe in the water. They may have had one or two mates with high-end systems and a couple of shops they could go to. The opinions of those people probably didn't vary too much as the gear on offer was very limited compared to now so it was relitively easy to make a descision on a starter system.
Now if someone wants to investigate good sound reproduction they jump on the internet and find a forum like this one and become so confused they don't know where to start.
Mass marketing of complete and utter rubbish wrapped in fancy boxes, sold by people who wouldn't have a clue doesn't help.
Elizabeth is right about the audiophile lunacy and snobbery putting people off but I still think it is very possible to have an incredible system for a very reasonable price, particularly if you go the DIY route. DIYers though are very much a dying breed themselves.
That poster is wrong about Electronic Dance music, its more than a person pushing a button on a laptop, and its not all crap, and its just as well recorded, if not better than your beloved Diana skin Krall records and your undermiced symphonic recordings...
If you cant hear the second violin section clearly blame the engineer!
Synthesizers and drum machines arent the bane of music, without them Artists like Krafwerk, Daft Punk, Giorgio Moroder, Tangerine dream, AIR, Brian Eno, Hans Zimmer and Armin Van Burren wouldn't exist!
I love how audiophiles describe everything played back as a recording, yes it is a recording but is much more than that, the music that is being reproduced is just as important or even more important than that one aspect. An old recording should sound like an old recording.
I heard a story about a guy who cleaned up some old reordings of old African American spirituals from the 30s and he cleaned up the audio to the point that there were no artifacts or clues as to how old they were.
People didnt beleive they were old recordings because that made them special had been lost..
The reason why people dont want to be aududiphiles is because theres too much arrogance and contradiction.
"Audiophiles" tend to lable everything under certian X-thousand dollar bracket as being "junk", there's no way a pair of $100.00-$600 bookshelves is in the same league as a dollar store boom box.... which doesent even have a woofer...
WTF!! I never mentioned electronic dance music, and I certainly don't listen to Diana Krall or symphonies.
I think the computer is the only thing that can now save high end audio.
Once you've heard high-definition music coming out of a machine with a decent audio interface (sorry, onboard motherboard audio does not cut it) you might be a convert.
Cheers,
Presto
Actually I completely agree with you about the sound quality possible with the computer, I have gone that way myself..dedicated laptop running EAC, J river, Jplay > stello usb convertor > Audio note 4.1 dac...And it sounds absolutely incredible for a lot less $$ than a comparable CD transport. So in that respect it could well help to save the audiophile world.
But I still maintain that the information overload that is availiable now can be very offputing. Take a look at the hugely varied opionions on this site alone.
Presto I did listen on the computer, a lot when my laptop was working.
the on board headphone jack was pretty decent, of course it crashed before I could find an external sound card, I needed one for Dj-ing.
I have to admit I prefer to listen to a bunch of CD's I'm one of the few people i know that will listne to a whole album all the way through without skipping through half the tracks.
A former freind of mine (he got married to the first thing he got, she is very insecure about herself and quite frankly she is not attractive) had a sony HTIB that sounded muffled compared to my Big sony speakers, we watched the dark knight and I could barely understand anything anyone said without it coming from the sub-woofer...
He had the surrounds on the floor under the counch and the LCRS under the Tv stand.. His mon's much youner boyfreind was a major tool...
I don't think they knew good audio if you sold them a pair of Paradigms, they'd put them under the couch....
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