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When someone goes out and buys a 50k BMW no one says a word about it. In southern California you see 50k cars every second. If you told someone you spent 50k on a stereo that would think you were crazy and probably suggest a psychiatrist. Why are people's values so out of whack?
Follow Ups:
a vetenarian was called in to increase his meds
may the bridges I burn light the way...
50k seems overpriced!
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
My reasoning was that I could spend $3k on some beater or I could get a pretty good stereo system. Besides if all my friends have cars and I can walk to work and school - then what do I need a car for. There is also bus and subway. A small sacrifice the stereo. I did the same in University. Over 5 years at University I was able to buy an Audio Note OTO Phono SE, AN K and then AN J loudspeakers, HD600 headphones and ASL headphone amp. Not bad - my alternative would be some Fix OR Repair Daily pile of poo.
Now living in Hong Kong where cars are not needed (in fact worse since it takes longer to get most places when you includ hunting for a place to park) I save so much more money. Down the line it would not be out of the realm for me to be able to spend considerably more "times" the money on a stereo.
I would never spend large on a car. Most of them are a joke when you go above the entry level. Many use the identical platforms and engines and then charge multiples of the price for "features" Car goes from $20k to $50k and you gain sopme rubbish leather, headlight wipers (useless), and various unecessary features like heated seats, or GPS in dash. It's not that these are bad in themeselves it's that the car more than double in price for $200 worth of resisters and LCDs and $1 heating elements.
Who the hell are you to criticize their choice or they yours? I personally wouldn't put $50K into either, but I've got a nice audio system and a decent high-performance vehicle, and I enjoy both equally...
My poor man's M3, bought it used and for a lot less than a M3, and it keeps up. ;-)
I just got off the dyno last Saturday. I found a couple of issues I need to address, one being a non-functioning VTC solenoid for the Driver's side cylinder bank, but I was still able to make 366hp/370tq at the wheels. I'm going to replace the VTC and re-tune in a month or two. I need to get a copy of my charts from the tuner.
Is yours a mid to late 1990's era twin turbo? I lusted for those when they came out. I owned a much older (but fun!) 1971 Datsun 240z. I also had a 1970 Datsun 510.
Your Z is putting out quite a lot considering it's valve timing is crippled!
Hi Abe, and thanks!
Yes it is, a 1995 2+2, with a TT motor swapped into it.
If you're interested, more pix can be seen here...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20967309@N06/sets/72157622208933944/
and my full mod list, can be seen here ... http://twinturbo.net/net/directory.aspx?forum=general&user_id=29815
I enjoy a spirited mountain drive, as much as a good listening session with some favorite music ;~)
Best, Barry
Man, you put some serious work into your Z. Very impressive!
I'm embarrassed because all I did was pay someone to upgrade (reflash) the ECU software, safely raising boost, and I had a better exhaust installed.
My Flickr photostream below. Some are a little jagged because I uploaded pics that were already a bit too compressed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/abester59/sets/72157625006394753/
Ya, I love back road drives, especially if I have a week day off as there's almost no traffic. It's very therapeutic for me.
.
may the bridges I burn light the way...
a 50k stereo in a 50k BMW - just looking for that 50k woman to complement (or compliment) it all.
H.F.N.
Where I live there are LOTS of $50K+ 4WD diesel pickup trucks and some pretty darned expensive horse trailers. Sudz, you wanna bitch about that? Those are often work vehicles for people who don't live flashy lives.What about geezers who, just as their sight, hearing and reaction are going to hell, go out and buy a $50K (or MORE) motor home, just to camp and talk to other geezers? That vehicle typically sits in a driveway and depreciates faster than a PC! And don't get me started on what it takes to maintain and fuel them!
And for those of you who bemoan $3/gallon gas, stop feeling sorry for yourself! Do you want the wages you had back when it was 99 cents? Why not move to Europe where it's somewhere north of $5.00?
Do I like gas prices? No, but I chose to live near the office so it doesn't hurt. WE ALL MAKE CHOICES, and if you have to sell (depreciated) CDs and SACDs to pay rent that's a corner you painted yourself into.
People buy Harleys partly because they want to look cool and tough. How much do they spend on Harley clothing so they all look alike? As least we audionuts don't have an entire wardrobe centered on our favorite amplifiers. And the straight exhaust pipes echoing off the hills at night? Real considerate! You talk about an impractical vehicle! Makes our "crazy" systems seem conservative in comparison. And we can listen to our year-round and don't have to be afraid of using them in the cold/wet weather.
Anyway, we choose music systems that are rewarding to us as individuals. It's great that we can share them with like-minded individuals, but would you sell your system because you can't polish it up and set it in the driveway for others to droll over? NO! It is a means to an end. And I'd venture to say most of our systems cost what a late-model used BUICK would cost, not $50K, so your comparison is BULLSHIT!
And before the Neanderthals start in, I rode motorcycles for years, most always drove "beaters", live in a modest ranch house almost as old as I am, and yes, I DO drive a BMW. I seem to recall Sudz, you bitching (or bragging, I couldn't tell) that you drive an old car. So what? Is that your problem?
OK, let the fight begin! :)
Edits: 07/08/12
"And for those of you who bemoan $3/gallon gas, stop feeling sorry for yourself! Do you want the wages you had back when it was 99 cents? Why not move to Europe where it's somewhere north of $5.00?"I did a search for the last year gas was 99 cents per gallon and that was 1999, in 1999 I was making $8.50 per hour as a customer service rep, which is 21 cents less than my last job as a customer service rep. which was $8.71. So, yes bring back the 1999 gas prices and all the other 1999 prices!
Even more revealing is comparing pay versus living costs between 1974 when gas was 23 cents a gallon and 2012 when it's almost $4.00 per gallon and rent is four times as much, food is more, everything is more.
Give me the $3.10 per hour salary I had in 1974 with the all other 1974 prices such as 23 cents per gallon for gas. $100 for monthly rent for my studio apartment, which I paid with "ONE" weeks pay! I now pay $450 for rent for a studio apartment that is not as good as the one I had in 1974, for one thing I have to share a kitchen. To get a studio apartment with it's own kitchen would run about $600. For the same standard of living in a current studio apartment with its own kitchen, that $3.10 per hour in made in 1974 I would now have to make $18.60 per hour. My last job as a customer service rep was $8.71 per hour. Prices go up considerably faster than wages!!
So YES move all the prices to 1974 levels and I would be glad to receive $3.10 per hour!
I would not pay $5 per gallon in Europe either, BTW it is almost $4 per gallon here in the USA.
"Happy Listening,
Teresa."
Edits: 07/09/12
Why do you suppose so many lottery winners and athletes turning pro buy flashy new cars as soon as they get any of the money?
That is the most obvious display of their wealth. Whether to be seen driving around in their expensive wheels or having it parked in their driveway, it provides a clear outward sign.
So what if they drop 50 large on a stereo, who knows about that?
Then I also agree with those who've suggested it depends on where you live. Around here I see more cars that sold for $50-250K in one day than in some parts of the US may in a year. So much so that $50K seems like your average family hauler.
Now my car cost 60% of that new and it was still more than my audio system. Doesn't matter, I enjoy them both. ;^)
"For a nominal service fee,
you can reach nirvana tonight."
Cars and homes are probably the most "conspicuous" things we own but (for most of us anyway) they are also more important than a nice stereo is for survival. Even show-offs need a place to sleep and a way to get around.
"He was one of those men who live in poverty so that their lines of questioning may continue." - John Steinbeck
nt
An average car costs $15K to $20K, maybe a little more, and most consider a car a necessity. How much does a typical consumer type stereo cost? A few hundred dollars, maybe? and how many consider that a necessity? The ratio between what an average individual spends on a car and what one spends on a luxury car is much smaller than that which seperates the average stereo and a $50K super system.
It comes down to what one values? In our country, the arts are undervalued. It's the first thing that gets cut in schools and in other areas of community life. Is it a wonder, given this, that people, in general, are bemused by $50K audio systems, but not so much, by $50k cars?
See Car & Driver 7/12 Letters: "Nearly 60 large for a four-cylinder, 240-hp,3900-pound BMW 5-series (April 2012) Am I the only one who thinks this is sick?" blah,blah,...
Dream within your means, you'll be happier.
The other day at a traffic light there were three white Lexus 570 SUVs, one behind me and one to the right and left.
It all depends on where you're at.
rather than for show. An expensive car is a status symbol. An expensive watch is a status symbol. An expensive stereo is a sign of someone disinterested in status and therefore creepy.
I've had friends tell me that they aspire to a Rolex so that others will consider them to be sucessful. Then again, they're in deep debt and buy a new car within seconds of paying off the old car.
We pay cash for all of our vehicles. Newest vehicle in our fleet is an 08 Jeep Liberty purchased for black book value and with 12k miles on it at the time. Other 3 are a 2000 Jeep Cherokee, 2000 Denali, and a 2002 MB Wagon. All 4 cars are noted for 250k+ of trouble free mileage. And we intend to get every bit of that out of each.
My current system could be replicated for abt $3000-3500. But I also have a mini museum of vintage tube equipment that would cost upwards of $15k to replace at cmv.....not that I paid anywhere close to current prices. And my record collection would cost at least $20k to replace.
Best, Ross
Really? Some people DO spend mega-bucks on a stereo system for the staus of it.
I think someone disinterested in status is the opposite of creepy as I find people interested in status to be creepy.
Needless to say, there are a lot of obviously creepy people out there!
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
Yup, buying a 50K stereo is a poor choice.
and some industrial strength air conditioning. ;-)
more money spent on tubes there than I have in my system!
"One this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure
...a $50K wristwatch.
Feel better now?
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
.
I really can care less what people think about my spending habits, especially expensive items.
Go to Great Falls, Virginia to see the Cars and Coffee;
http://www.secretentourage.com/events/cars-and-coffee-great-falls-va/ and you will see a ton of nice expensive cars. This is just down the road from where my future house will be. These guys only go there for coffee and a social gathering for a few hours, after that, it is back to their home.
I hate to think what would go through your mind if I decided to buy the AUDI R8 instead of the Corvette, or, splurge on a megabuck system, but then again, I could care less.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life
You should know, it's how they roll.
Hmm.. really? I like hi-fi gear, but even my old BMW 2002Ti is another topic/subject, whatever, than tunes out of the stereo. IMHO.
Edits: 07/08/12 07/08/12 07/08/12
Yeah it was only $30,000. instead of $50,000 but the same thing.
I did need a new car but I wanted the stereo stuff way more.
(A car is easy to finance, stereo equipment is a lot bigger problem to finance at a low rate anyway.)
So I spent the cash on stereo stuff i listen to every day 365 days a year.
After two years i finally bought a new car (At 3.9% four years) a 2012 Ford Focus with sport package and manual transmission. Nice car. i drive it a few hours a week. (35mpg or better, up to 47mpg freeway)
The stereo i listen to every day at least 12 hours a day... or more.
You do lead a sheltered life don't you!
.
"i drive it a few hours a week. (35mpg or better, up to 47mpg freeway)"
You should recheck those numbers. They seem way out of line for a gasoline engine.
.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
If you think that is off, then check it out.
My best mpgs on afreeway are in the 52mog range. though a few hills can cut inot that. Ditto a headwind.
In just under 5,000Miles my overall average is 36 mpg. Mostly city driving.
True i drive slooooow, and have the tires higher pressure than standard.
And i use Mobile One 0-W20 'green' oil. But the mpgs are real. And yeeah it is a gasoline ehgine.
Pity I cannot get 'real' (non-ethanol gas) gas, If i COULD get gasoline with no ethanol. the mpgs would be 10% higher.PS it is odd a few folks report crummy mpgs. part of it is the city driving. In the 2012 Focus, sitting at a light cuts the mpg significantly, so a lot of stoplights equals poor mpgs. i drive so i do not go on streets with endless stops. I use streets with few stops whenever i can
Edits: 07/08/12
I don't have first hand experience.
And the ones gettin crappy MPGs seem to be miffed at those of use getting better than average.
I am NOT going to take my car in for some sort of Ford's 'adjustment' they are saying will 'improve' drivability, as it means they are going to raise the fuel at tip in to stop a few from getting stalls when idiot drivers floor it from a standstill.
I'll keep my 'weak' tipin and keep the mpgs too.
From what little I know, 35/47 mpg seems otherworldly for that car.
.
Exceptional is what it is. No beef.
Personally I think the 2012 Focus' out there have different fuel maps in them. Some are real gas sipping maps, others not so.
From the Fuelly MPg curve you can see it is a real curve. with some getting poor, many average and some really good MPGs.
Then driving. All it takes is a LOT of stops at stoplights and the mileage is totally screwed. And not so good habits.
I no longer go anywhere in town where the stoplights are bad news (if i can help it)
One can SEE the gas draining away sitting at a long stoplight!!!
The best is long no stop 35mph limit parkways.
30mph areas I drive at 32 mph so i can just squeek into fifth gear. (manual tranny)
I stay in the highest gear which the car will tolerate.
Freeways i go the speed limit, not faster. I try to keep from ever having to slow down, so being below the average speed is great for that.
I drive like a raw egg is under the throttle. I HAVE gotten honks from impatient drivers behind me getting underway from a stoplight... If they need to be in a big hurry, not my problem. I have my tires at 46 psi front 40psi rear.
I used to drive twenty over the limit all the time. Now I drive with my eye glued to the mpg meter.
Haha hah.
I love it at the fuel pump. i fuel up maybe at the most twice a month and usually only have to buy 3 or 4 gallons to top off the tank.My last car got 22mpg. I HAD to buy a car which got twice then to even be worth getting a new car. i think i did OK.
Added: oh yeah, I am retired. That means I NEVER have to drive in rush hour traffic.
Edits: 07/08/12
"I love it at the fuel pump. i fuel up maybe at the most twice a month and usually only have to buy 3 or 4 gallons to top off the tank."
I never fully connected with pumping my own gas. As such, I've become interested in how far gasoline engines have come, under normal driving conditions.
ALL gasoline engines burn gas above the Stoichiometric balance in a rich situation so the engine does not overheat (using the unburned gas as a coolant)
This has always been the situation, and usually the gas is very rich.
To better protect the valves and stuff.
I have wondered why engine designers have not figured out how to really take advantage of lean burning. The greater heat would give more power/heat IF they could figure out how to use it without melting down the engine!!!
The above isn't true any more. Materials are better and engines try to burn pretty close to stoichiometric except at cold start.
They've looked at lean burning for a long time and try to push it as far as you can---the probvlems are predetonation and creation of nitrous oxides (smog) which cannot be cleaned in the catalytic converter.
Modern engines that get the highest MPG like yours are probably direct injection (inject fuel into cylinder during cycle like a Diesel, instead of injecting & vaporizing in intake).
Actual underlying fuel efficiency of engines has been climbing for 25 years steadily, but achieved MPG has not, all because the extra efficiency has gone into heavier vehicle weight to add luxury & features.
The actual MPG not surprisingly has exactly tracked the government requirenments.
Which may seem like a contradiction, the mileage to HP ratio also matters to me. Back to audio...
I have a 75000 dollar stereo, and a 100,000 dollar car.....I get thrills from them both.
Don't include me in your comparison, if someone told me they spent 50k on a car I would either assume they have money to throw away or I would question their sanity. By contrast, my mom paid 10k for her house!Who are those people who think a 50k BMW is no big deal? Oh, my god! You must hang around crazy, insane people. I would assume that spending 50k on a car is shocking to most people especially members of the working class.
Ralph Nader (my hero) never owned a car! I would rather see people spend 50k on stereo as stereos don't pollute the environment or are used to kill people, on purpose or by accident.
If I had $50,000, first I would buy the best 2-track/4-track 15 IPS and 7½ IPS reel to reel tape deck and all the best "the tape project" and "Opus 3" 2-track 15 IPS master tape copies and put the rest into a retirement fund.
I have no desire to spend any amount of money on a super expensive mode of transportation, walking and the bus are fine for me.
"Happy Listening,
Teresa."
Edits: 07/07/12 07/07/12
I would say the average basement-dwelling "kid" around here drives a MB (preferred), a BMW, or a Honda. Not a wealthy area by any means, solidly middle middle-class.
You should check out the spending habits of under-30s these days. They're really big into depreciating (or consumable) assets. Very different from "our" time. Explains a lot of the advertising we see/hear. The BMW and MB ads are aimed at these kids. Seriously. I am so clued out, but can't help notice that MB is the new Civic or Sunfire in these parts. Can't say it's not a step up to my eyes...
Now if he had asked about a $50k stereo IN a $50k BMW. Also, $50k doesn't buy much of a BMW these days, well nothing that interests me anyway, and I *do* think $50k for a car is not trivial.
"Who are those people who think a 50k BMW is no big deal? Oh, my god! You must hang around crazy, insane people. I would assume that spending 50k on a car is shocking to most people especially members of the working class."You have no idea. The wealthy are so much richer than the rest of us.
Where I live, the local mall has a large number of vacancies since 2008, clear economic distress.
In the neighborhood where I work, the locals have tons of money. 50k for a car is nothing, and it's quite common to see late model M-series and AMG's, Porsches (these are more like $90-$150K). Hang out at the gas station and you'll see probably 5 Ferrari/Maserati/Aston Martin per day. The owner of the gas station (I believe) parks a new CL65.
Even during the Great Recession I saw plenty of newly registered expensive cars & SUV's there, but in the last 2 years many more.
The thing is, that the people buying them are not even remotely crazy or insane. They just make so much more money than we do, that even this kind of expenditure is less consequential to them than a normal person buying your average Honda.
The country is actually quite productive but only a few get the benefits.
Edits: 07/07/12
.
.
And one doesn't have to buy new. One can get a good used car for $7,000 or less. But why when gas prices are approaching $4.00 per gallon.
Walking, riding a bike or the bus is a lot more economical.
I refuse to own a car again until gasoline comes back down to 99 cents a gallon or lower! I was really, really, really pissed when gas went to $2.00 per gallon. And when it went to $3.00 per gallon I refused to pay it and sold my car!
"Happy Listening,
Teresa."
True. I was just poking fun of the original poster, who completely ignored the relative cost difference in the price of totally different goods.
One can build a good starter audio system for $500-$1000. However, the same is not true for cars. $500-$1000 is scrap heap grade, with significant mechanical problems throughout.
You might buy a very good audio system for $10,000, but you would never be able to get a very good car for $10,000. Watch the hosts of Top Gear bbc to find out what features make a good car.
That is a shame. I thought you just bought a new car last year though?
when gas went to $3.00 per gallon.
Looking back on my life, if I could do it again I would never buy a car. Cars just absorb money, money is hard to make, I've wasted too much of it in my life.
"Happy Listening,
Teresa."
I know some folks hate the automobile. Not me. I loved my last car. I drove it at 140mph PLENTY of times. One reason i went for a smaller 'economy' car this time was I am getting too old to be driving 20 plus over the speed limit ALL the time. (not because i do not want to speed, but i am getting too old to avoid tickets.!!!!)
I almost used some of my retirement bonus to buy a Hyabusa type motorcycle so I could go 200mph anytime i twisted the grip. I decided not to as falling off at 186mph just hurts too much at my age.
LOL.
I wouldn't mind having "Fell off at 186 MPH" on my tombstone though.
Not that either of my Harleys can go that fast, but still...
.
It is not "people's values" that are out of "whack", I think it is some person's statements that are out of whack ...
It is not "people's values" that are out of "whack", I think it is some person's statements that are out of whack ...
AGREED!
Nearly all my life I've bought cars with 100,000+ miles and run the wheels off of them, so my cost of OWNING a car has been FAR less than the cost of BUYING a car. I kept to a goal of keeping my average purchase price at or UNDER $5,000. Several of them were BMWs and the maintenance cost on them was pretty low, since I could easily swap out clutches and starters myself.
And they weren't just CARS, but necessary transportation that was a BLAST to drive.
When the stars were in alignment I bought a near new BMW 525 that is now 10 years old. I plan to drive it for ANOTHER ten years at least. On a recent 1200-mile trip I got a solid 31mph, Don't use cruise and don't go the speed limit.
The real idiots (including one who lives in my house) are the ones that buy new cars and trade 'em in every few years. That is not a car, that is a perpetual car PAYMENT, while people like me wait gleefully for you to take the depreciation hit.
I also have a 15-year-old Buick station wagon that I use as a truck. Looks like hell but rides great. Paid $2,900 for it on ebay sight-unseen 6 years ago. Total repairs in 6 years? Under $2K.
And that, my friends, is the story of how I can afford Maggie 20.1s on less than $40K per year.
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