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I plan to get a pair of Tannoy Prestige series speaker as my retirement gift. I have not heard the speaker in person but I know what I am after, of course if local dealer can bring in the model for demo first, that will be ideal. They already told me they have no interest to do that because the price of the speaker vs local market potential ratio is expected to be poor. For me it is totally understandable.
So basically no demo, just one email from the dealer to the manufacturer, some deposit, that's it. Under such circumstance, what kind of discount off listing price is reasonable??
Thank you
Follow Ups:
Frankly, I don't understand why the importer would even open a non-displaying dealer. The logic escapes me.Under these circumstances I think at least a 10% and perhaps a 20% discount seems reasonable. If the OP was a regular customer 20% would certainly not be out of line.
That said, I find the tremendous sense of entitlement by many of the posters here extremely distasteful. You can either have B&M dealers who have display stock, are willing to offer home auditions (at least for a couple days) and who may offer set up assistance and loaners for repair situations OR you can have significant discounts off list. Anyone who thinks they should receive great service AND the lowest prices available ought to be in custodial care. Personally, I don't want B&M dealers to become extinct and if that means I only get 10% off list instead of 25% so be it. Those individuals who are willing to take advantage of a B&M dealer to audition and then search for the lowest price and buy elsewhere because they can save a couple hundred dollars are simply lowlife parasites.
Edits: 03/27/12
"Those individuals who are willing to take advantage of a B&M dealer to audition and then search for the lowest price and buy elsewhere because they can save a couple hundred dollars are simply lowlife parasites. "
No, really?
Thankfully, there are NONE of them here.
:)
the key is service. If the B&M dealer is providing a service, they are entitled to a reasonable profit for that service. I suppose that the amount of that profit - what is reasonable - depends on the nature of the service provided and what the market will bear for such a service, but that is a different, if somewhat related, issue.
If little service is provided, if the dealer places the order, arranges delivery, and nothing more, then less profit should be expected.
What does your dealer DO for you. Then you can decide whether it is worth paying their prices for that product + service.
I've dealt with MANY MANY dealers and manufacturers including, Venus HiFi, Tone Imports, Pitch Perfect Audio, directly with Audio Note UK, Cain and Cain, several internet direct dealers, Quintessence, Holm Audio, Highwater Sound, and ALL of them provided different levels of service AND discounts from retail.
Some dealers seem to go out of their way to make you a customer. Some seem to think that you are lucky they are there to sell you the product.
If I sold the line I'd give you 20% off (normal discount on most items)but I don't also only would sell in my defined area.
Good luck.
If you find ever find yourself around Atlanta - my Tannoy dealer (no financial affiliation; I'm just a "junkie" who's also friends with his dealer) can usually source at least a couple of the Prestige models for demo - for a serious buyer, such as yourself. He's done right by me, several times now. I'm extremely happy to have him local, since the Prestige line is so rare in the US.
Having heard a number of the models now - I'd recommend that you go for the ones using the pepperpot/Alnico driver (Kensington SE and up). They're somehow both more resolving AND more musical - truly "final destination" gear. I've used the Kensington SE in my main 2ch for 3 years now (might move up to the Canterbury SE, eventually).
I know 10-20% is quite common, if one has good relationship with the shop or know the salesperson well, one may get a bit more. since I haven't visited any audio shops for well over 15 yrs, I think I better get some idea first especially under the circumstance that I have described, the other reason is Tannoy dealer in my city that deal with audio series is basically an office with a web page only.
thank you for all responses
... Then ask for 30%.
Smile
Sox
;-)
Can't hurt to ask for a decent discount especially if there's no chance of a product demo.
I get 20% off all the time and many times 25-30% off can be had. It's a different world we live in and if the B&M guys think otherwise then you might see them sooner than later looking for a different line of work!
It's hard to be precise on what discount to expect but something in the 20% off range is reasonable in many cases but it depends on the brand. I have it on good authority that the markup on Whest (phonostages) is HUGE and asking for 1/2 off would still net the dealer a shameful profit.
Your not forgetting the sales persons commission in this whole transaction are you?
I meant to say "your forgetting the commission"
"a shameful profit. "
And net the buyer a shameful savings.
So everyone's happy. :)
As a dealer i dont give a discount,And i dont give extra fries..If its defective you deal direct with manufacture not me,,,I,m still in bussines.
... Or full of shit?
Smile
Sox
What kind of business? An order taker?
why not register appropriately & then you can put your link in your info?
50% off Kondo gear and the dealer still does well!
I bought a pair of Tannoy Definition D500 speakers many years ago from a local dealer. He gave me 20% off LIST price, as he did for just about everything I bought from him. Good luck!
with a full deposit up front. Dealer risks nothing, makes money for
doing very little. He should be amenable. If not, find one who is.
Product can be drop shipped to you directly from mfgr/distributor.
When I bought an Audio Research Ref 5 preamp from Quintessence Audio I basically did the same thing. I called up the dealer and told him what I wanted. No audition, no tire kicking. About three min of work for them. My discount? All of a couple of hundred dollars over RETAIL. Fortunately for them, I must've been relatively flush at the time and I really wanted the preamp.
It would've been way better to buy online. That way it would've been delivered to me instead of having to hump over to Quintessence to get it. Offer to set up? No. Offer to deliver? No.
Hmmmm...why are dealers going out of business. One wonders. Look, if you have a good dealer then great. My favorite model for this business are the local guys that work out of their houses. No overhead. Really...I give a crap if these guys have overhead. If they want to be in the business, then it is THEIR responsibility to find a model that makes them money and *gasp* is something the consumer wants. I'm not a charity (except, obviously, that one time with Quintessence). As I said, I'd be more willing to a pay for a dealer who offers service but pay just to keep them in business? Er...no.
What's next, I have to give the VCR repairman an allowance?
Over retail (Which I'm sure the dealer is giving you),How much of a "better deal" can you get going some place else?
Good luck.
I don't need setup help, I have no plan to return it. Demo or not actually isn't that important because this is not an impulsive type purchase, or a try out then "I'll think about it" kind of thing, I plan on it for several yrs.
I try to give local dealer a chance first. All they have to do is one phone call, take my 50% deposit and then arrange the delivery. So base on these, how much of discount off the MSRP should I ask for? Or what number will you consider is fair.
Thanks
For both parties. More than 20% would be nice, but I would only expect it if I did previous business with this dealer. Less than 20% would insult me, as a consumer.
you will go back to the dealer. So making a call and taking your money may not be all they'll need to do.
The dealer doesn't have to order it on speculation, pay for it, and hold it in inventory, hoping that it'll eventually be sold. Rather, it's already sold when he orders it. This is some of the easiest money the dealer will ever make.
BUTT, people often change their minds downstream, even on custom built products. So, the terms of the purchase are critical. Are you stuck with them even if you don't like them, OR, is the dealer going to have to take them back (not withstanding goods damaged in shipping)? If your terms with the dealer allow you to return them, don't expect a discount.
Being a guy who typically makes a purchase decision because I KNOW I want the product, I've typically paid cost plus 10-20 percent plus shipping. But don't expect that if there's ANY possibility that you'll want to return them.
On the other hand, Home Depot actually charges the regular product price PLUS $50 for special orders. I won't be special ordering anything there - and that might be exactly the way they and other retailers like it. Special orders can take an inordinate amount of personnel time, both before and after the sale, and many businesses really don't want to get into that area.
So, if you can walk in, and haven't been/aren't needy of hand-holding and attention, and agree in writing that you won't return them except for certain physical damage, then you might get a discount if you pay in full up front.
If you're looking for special treatment, order online.
--------------
Walk in the other man's shoes.
PS I have a used set of 15 inch HPDs in a pro (Lockwood Academy I) fake woodgrain cabinet from a recording studio closing down, that I paid $1500 for. If you are near Montreal you are welcome to listen/ and or buy them at that price.
Govern yourself accordingly.
,
Buy used. The dealer is giving you no service
for whatever reason or logic; then I would suspect your dealer would probably have no interest in returning them if the speakers does not live up to your expectations...in any event- I'd say go used. Agon has dozens of Tannoys; well below market. But thats just me.BTW- congrats on your retirement, you deserve a treat! I retired in 2001; I still work (lol) but treated myself to a new pair of Magnepan MG1.6s and haven't looked back since ;)
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 03/25/12
What I don't understand is why you feel entitled to a discount in this case. The dealer is providing a service, picking up the phone, providing a purchase order, paying for the shipping and a possibility of being 'stuck' with the product. The dealer is there to provide service after the sale, pays the lease, electricity, and all other expenses associated with being a dealer and should enjoy his or her fair share of the alloted profit for the product because the dealer is ADDING value to the transaction. By virtue of discount he is devaluing the service. Would you also want to audition them too prior to the commitment?
I am not a dealer..but when a product is offered for a PRICE..all of this is considered and to devalue the relationship by discount is WHY dealers are becoming scarce. Why should the dealer have to compete with on-line prices? If you paid shipping charges in full, did not ask for an audition, would not bother the dealer for servicing or return--then make this clear and see what the dealer says about that.
I had a similar deal offered when I wanted to audition an early Sony SACD player. I asked a local Sony dealer to hear it. They said that if I first coughed up 3500 I could hear it I could do so in the comfort of my home. Had I not liked it there would have, as I am sure there would be for bouncy ball in his case, a nominal restock fee, of which is often 10 to 15%. Hmm I thought, that's 350 + minimum charge for MY risk. I ended up buying it on line for 1725 shipped. Sorry, but the dealer would have made 1700 + bucks for doing nothing more than ordering the box for me and providing me with the same terms and conditions I got on line. Sorry but bouncy should say the heck with the dealer and get a good deal on line.
Ozzie, I agree ...everyone should seek the best deal..which ultimately it is on line. I think my point is when using a dealers services, provided how little business they are actually getting these days, their should not be an expectation of on line pricing. The one reason alone I shop on line is the free shipping offers, the price and "other reasons" like dealing with an asshole dealer..which is very common in the high end world.
If I am going to pay dealer / B&M pricing, I should be treated like gold. If the dealer can earn my expectations (above and way beyond what on-line purchasing can provide) by allowing in home demo, being there for service, (Usually a free loaner whilst the repair is under way) and being a decent sport for the profit I am "giving them" then it is a good deal to support the B&M's in those particular circumstances.
A certain expectation of added value must be earned by the dealer and performed.
In your original response to bouncy you stated this:
"What I don't understand is why you feel entitled to a discount in this case. The dealer is providing a service, picking up the phone, providing a purchase order, paying for the shipping and a possibility of being 'stuck' with the product."
The same service that you seem to require below. He absolutely understands that the dealer needs to pay rent, make a profit, consider their exposure of their risk / reward, but is not getting the service you now seem to rightly expect.
"If I am going to pay dealer / B&M pricing, I should be treated like gold. If the dealer can earn my expectations (above and way beyond what on-line purchasing can provide) by allowing in home demo, being there for service, (Usually a free loaner whilst the repair is under way) and being a decent sport for the profit I am "giving them" then it is a good deal to support the B&M's in those particular circumstances.
A certain expectation of added value must be earned by the dealer and performed."
I can't agree more. However bouncy's valid concern is that basically the dealer is having no more involvement in the transaction than that of a middle man that takes orders over the net, then turns around and orders from the manufacturer and makes a rather healthy profit. Nice work. I am not advocating him going out and listening to the speaker at any dealer, only to then turn around and buy off of the net. Not that he can in this case, which is the whole point of his post, right? Sane audio geeks can agree that that is uncool and of Best Buy audio class. I provided the numbers of the dealer take and the restock fee. To address bouncy's question, since they can't provide a product for him to hear up front, how much rationally should he expect off of the list price? After all, he will have skin in the game since if he does not like it, he has to pay the restock fee of well over 400 dollars. I'll go with 10%. If they say no, order them off of the net, rag writers and the cool guys over at Critics opinions be darned.
Ozzie,
You are exactly right. The dealer in this case is nothing more than a glorified box-mover. Iron Knee's posts are humorous and shows how some folks have lost touch with reality.
YES I AM A ORDER TAKER...LEGIT DRUGS..
Any chance of traveling somewhere and hearing the speaker FIRST? The money spent on a couple tickets somewhere will far outweigh the money lost when you resell something you dont' love.
By all means, deal local if you can. Buying something you ultimately don't like would be the ultimate PO.
Since the dealer is just a pass thru what kind of discount could / should you expect? I'd trade a potential discount for better service. Delivery? Setup? That would be nice.
Too much is never enough
Which model did you get?
not really for my birthday but just a retirement gift for myself, and that will be after the kitchen reno first! you know what i mean.
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