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I'm moving to Australia from the US. I was planning on shipping my Magnepan MMGs and Bryston 3B-ST amp out there. The amp I would have converted to 230V after I arrive. The thing is, I've been fighting a power line noise problem for a very long time. Now it looks like it was due to a high-impedance ground. I know first-hand that AC power is a huge issue and I would so much prefer to never deal with it again and use batteries. That would mean not shipping my gear to Australia.
The question is, how will performance compare to what I have now? Can I create a truly isolated system that still has dynamics and slam?
I only need to power a low-power computer and amp. I don't use a preamp and my Proton DAC is USB-powered.
Follow Ups:
If I switch to battery-powered stuff, I just realized I won't have to deal with any of this again (in an audio context):
- power conditioners
- power cables
- outlets
- outlet faceplates
- parallel filters
- circuit breaker filters
- dedicated lines
- ground optimization
- my household appliances
- electricians
- neighbors
Plus the sound will be consistent and effectively noise-free.
What are the cons? The only thing I can think of is less gear to choose from.
Less powerful, less dynamic (without very efficient speakers), limited playtime, periodic battery replacement.
My Reflection Audio Quantum OM-1 is the most dynamic preamplifier I've owned. It's auto charging is worry free. If the the dry cells fail it can also be run on AC.
I purchased the unit used and it still had the original batteries. I replaced the batteries out of general principal five years ago.
The power here is usually very good but of course it is very dependent on where on the grid your outlets are and where in relation to transformers and/or any high current users are.
I don’t know much about battery systems but if you are considering Red Wine Audio make sure you check prices in the States and here in Australia before you come over and maybe expecting to pay the same price here as there.
Where in Australia are you heading to?
Smile
Sox
Per Australian standard AS60038, the australian supply is nominally 230V +10/-6%.
So, technically anywhere between 216 and 253 is within spec.
Different states or providers may stipulate a different nominal voltage but, including tolerances, it shouldn't exceed the limits of the AS.
Cheers
Welly
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams
I'm not disputing that the voltage in NSW is 240v and I did say in my original post that different providers can stipulate different nominal volatge, but they still should not exceed the upper and lower limits set out in the Australian standard.
I've never measured what is coming out of my wall sockets. Technically, it should be somewhere between 216 and 253.
Cheers
Welly
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams
`
Smile
Sox
We're hoping to move to Sydney but won't know for sure for some months. If I may ask, people seem to move into Sydney and then move out after awhile. What makes them go? It seems like such a nice place.
Why do you mention checking RWA prices before arriving in Australia? Couldn't I just buy the unit wherever it is cheaper including shipping?
How do customs taxes work? If I ship something to myself in Australia, do I have to pay customs on it?
Sydney is a coastal city. The city stretches across nearly 1600 square kilometres.
Some folks love it and other folks move on for a myriad of reasons.
Property and rents are expensive in many parts of Sydney compared to some parts of the USofA and other parts of Australia. It all depends where you are going to be living in Sydney and what you are there for.
I don’t know what the pricing of RWA gear is but I suspect it is more expensive here than in the States.
We do have Customs/Excise that needs to be paid as well as GST (tax) on goods with a value over $1,000 dollars au if they come from overseas.
A potential problem with buying new gear in the USofA and shipping it to yourself is there will be no warranty here in Australia for goods purchased elsewhere. I think you will fall foul of Customs as well.
Smile
Sox
a
Not all goods and services - most.
The Government decided that it would cost too much money to collect GST for everything coming into the country, so they imposed this (arbitrary) limit of $1,000.
So when I buy LPs from an Oz record shop, I pay GST but when I order from Acoustic Sounds or Audiophile USA, I don't.
And there's no GST on fresh food - only packaged or processed food.
Regards,
Andy
I thought it was less regressive than our sales tax where the poor pay a higher percentage of their income into the tax than do the rich.
That's only 40kms x 40kms. I would've thought Sydney was more like 60 x 60kms - or even more? :-))
(With not much in the way of public transport, which is why people leave! :-)) )
Regards from Mexico,
Andy
Left Sydney for Mexico andyr? I hear the sea level is rising one cm a year.
Cheers
Bill
I live in Melbourne - Australia's "Boston" vs. the "LA" of Sydney. Sox lives on the north coast of New South Wales and Victoria is the next state south ... so I'm "south of the border".
New South Welshmen like to think they live in the most important State compared to us Victorians - kinda like the US vs. Mexico. So my use of "Mexico" acknowledges I'm south of his border. :-))
And, yes, a calls me a "wetback".
Regards,
Andy
PS: In terms of the sea level rising 1cm a year - the earth has long, long cycles of that sort of thing. Around 10,0000 years ago, Australian Aborigines were able to walk from the mainland to the island of Tasmania.
So the sea level must've been 300' lower than it is today. Some time after that, the sea rose to the level it is now and they became isolated.
andyr, just couldnt resist posting this, my all tme great Bushrangers team!
B. Lawry (Captain)
L. Hassett
N. Harvey ( saw him play in 1960)
D. Hussey
M. Hussey
Dean Jones
Wade (WK)
Keith Miller
Shane Warne
Pattinson
Bill Johnston
Ponsford
unbeatable at the MCG. What do you think.
Best Regards
Bill
I am completely bereft of interest in cricket ... so I can't double your bet!! :-))
I also have zero interest in our version of football ("Aussie Rules") - or your code! :-)) (There is no 'I' in 'Team' - wasn't it Vince Lombardi who said that - great, Vince, so you can spell! :-)) )
Regards,
Andy
... It all depends how faceless boffins define the boundaries of a city. Sydney is supposedly twice the size of New York.
The Greater Sydney Basin is of course a very much larger area.
I left Sydney but as I have never caught public transport, except for maybe a year or so at school, I really don’t think the public transport system is the reason I left :)
Smile
Sox
.
... By the time I went to school I was nearly eligible for my licence.
Smile
Sox
These amps are very nice. I've got the LFP/V incarnation of the 30.2 Signature model and sometimes run it direct from my Wavelength Proton DAC.
If you're struggling with power issues now, then battery power will be an immediately relief. These things are as quiet as you would expect. The strong suit is clarity and ease. The sound is very open, without strain and very pure. I don't think it lacks in dynamics... though frankly I've never heard the Brystons and would not be surprised if those brutes pack a serious punch. Not sure how to compare them tete a tete.
The LFP battery and charging system is just wonderful. Having this friendly battery management system really takes care of everything. And the LFP battery itself immediately sounded more powerful to me compared to the older generation Sealed Lead Acid Batteries.
So, I would never part with mine. Really like it. These are not high wattage amplifiers, so you want to get a good speaker match. I mostly use mine with my Omega Grande 6R (single driver) monitors.
Thank you for your comments. You answered a couple questions I was wondering about. I have the Proton too and I also send its signal straight to my Bryston amp with no preamp inbetween. It sounds great... early and late. I work from home and listen all day so "early and late" doesn't really cut it.
I'm considering buying the RWA Black Lightning and driving Audioengine 2A powered speakers from them.
Maybe you can set up something with the battery out of a Chevy Volt, They don't power the cars to long but I bet it would do pretty well with the right stereo pieces .......... ;^)
To do battery power correctly, you must spend a ton of money and have the system designed by someone in the know. If done correctly it will crush even the best AC. When I say "a ton of money" I am talking about upwards of 15 to 20K.
Are you saying the only worthwhile battery setup is a custom one? Have you seen Red Wine Audio? Their gear is supposed to be good and they're a distributor for some speakers that are supposed to be a good match.
Don't ask me why, but the few times I've listened to battery systems, the music to me sounded kind of "boring"....... One would think the lowest-level details would become more apparent, but in my experiences, the opposite effect occurred.
This is off topic
But I found a Sarah McLachlan with no autotune. This was at Simon Fraser University where she was getting an honorary PHD in fine arts.
So now I am happy - she can sing after all
A few years back I purchased a PA (Public Address) Speaker system that ran off of both AC and battery. It put out a pretty good sound level and when used for music or movies did an OK job. I would not however classify the speakers as audiophile approved.
If I recall it took maybe 12 Size D Batteries.
I was thinking more like Red Wine Audio stuff.
I have used the RWA sig30.2
I am now using the Audio Consulting MIPA amp.
I use in a different system, having compared the two, the Berning ZH230.
Battery driven systems do not lack slam! It is probably the most consisting sound, as long as you recharche your accus properly..
(there are mistakes to be made in every system, and I made them all ;-)
On a different note; I realise buying is always easier than selling, but moving to Australia means you could get the most fabulous Ambience Ref 1600 speakers, which are all and everything that Magnepans are.. so why not getting something new, and they would begreat with an RWA 30..
fwiw egidius
Ambience looks very interesting but it's hard to find info about them online. Those speakers can be driven by a low-powered amp like the RWA?
If you aren't using the RWA, how do you go about attaching your battery to your amp?
What drawbacks do you think there are with a battery-powered amp compared to an AC-powered amp other than charging the batteries?
how do I go about connecting:
My MIPA has two battery connectors, and those are in turn connected to rechargers, very simple.
e
First of all a disclaimer: In no way affiliated to any of those people..
I am a violinist, using this gear for profession and fun.
But..
A friend of mine is using and tweaking ambience speaker with more than great results, but then he is an audiophile beyond the usual measure.
His ambience Ref 1800 sound way better than an also very good 20.1 of another friend; and the reason might be in amplification demands:
The Maggie friend uses very big Pass monos, whereas the Ambience friend uses Berning ZH270, and my ZH230 are way enough for speakers with 96db not going below 4 Ohm.
So the answer is, yes, you can run them with RWA no fear. I have driven Quads with them, and my own speakers are Merlins.
Now to the RWA: They do have a drawback: the best sound is to be got with freshly loaded batteries, loosing colours after 20 minutes or so, this is a bit system dependent, and also related if you do discerning listening, which I certainly don't always do;-)
About the Audio Consulting (www.audio-consulting.ch) that's a completely different kettle of fish! Look it up. I use the small MIPA, with 30 Watts. Certainly the best amp I have ever come across, but this is completely unshippable ;-)
But you can pick up a 2nd hand RWA for nothing and go for a great speaker in Australia - ask Australians, not the Swiss ;-)
egidius
"the best sound is to be got with freshly loaded batteries"
I'm very disappointed to hear this. Now I'm beginning to wonder if the new boss is indeed same as the old. Your batteries are the LiFePo or whatever they're called? I wonder if SLA would have the same problem.
Perhaps a regenerator would be more appropriate.
..you should not be disappointed: whatever they tell you, a difference is possible, but the best version is so much better than the berning through grid, that i live very happily like this, and nowadays use a constant recharging system, so there is actually not difference anymore.
Remember, my Sig30 was an older model, and maybe RWA have gone in the same direction..
If your present AC system is bad, that doesn't necessarily mean it will be bad at your new location in Australia. Why not give it a try before making your decision.
In my opinion, batteries are not very practical unless you're running pretty low power. And there's the issue of having recharge the batteries. Unless you're going to be running just a few watts into highly efficient speakers, I wouldn't even go there.
Another alternative might be to get dedicated AC lines installed at your new location..... and maybe an AC power conditioner (regenerator would be preferred, if necessary). I'm running dedicated AC in my listening room.
As a follow-up question, can anyone here who considers themself to have a discerning audio palette say their sound is 100% consistent between 12AM and 12PM?
Just get yourself a P10 power regenerator (PS Audio). The P10 doesn't know or care what time it is. Neither will you :-)
Anyone?
Any inconsistency I hear in my system over the course of the day is more likely to be me than the system.
nt
If you have a lot of noise in your system it is really a "you" thing and the way you have strung together your components, not and A/C thing in general. It is VERY possible to get a VERY quiet system with A/C. You will not be able to use your speakers with a battery amp anyway.
As I said, I wouldn't be shipping my amp and speakers to Australia if I go batteries. You say "very" quiet, but would you say 100% as quiet as batteries? If your's is such a system, what power conditioner do you use?
You poor Yanquis seem to have much worse trouble with mains power than we do in Oz ... I suspect it's because your feeble 110v supply means currents are so high (compared to those with our 230v supply). So you suffer from interference much more.Sure, battery power in theory is very quiet and I can vouch for this ... as I have 2 phono stages - one mains powered (with a sophisticated, emitter-follower regulated PS) and the other powered by SLAs.
The battery-powered phono stage is certainly quieter ... but, even so, with the mains-powered one, I have to wind my preamp volume control round to pretty near max before I can hear anything at the listening position (with no music playing).
If you get your amp converted to 230/240v supply, I suggest you are likely to have no problems ... unless your particular amp has, basically, a crap PS (with a low PSRR). Certainly, with my own power amps, I can hear nothing with my ears 6" from the drivers.
Sure I'm in Melbourne but I wouldn't think Sydney would be much different - although as my compatriot, Sox, said ... it depends a bit on your local supply (and whether you've got a panel-beater next door! :-)) ).
("Panel beater" - car repair workshop, liable to be using welding gear.)
Regards,
Andy
Edits: 03/18/12
unless your battery is about this size
No: not true!
Great picture, not great point -
I have been using the Audio Consulting MIPA (mains independent power amp) which I use with two different sets of batteries or simply on the recharger, and the new Sonnenschein Batteries are just great and hold out seemingly for ever
(to be honest, I did have a strange experience, but with the very first batteries that I was given, with unsure provenience, i brought them to dealer to discard)
How is that Audio Consulting amp? Good, great, or mind-blowing? :)
My mind is not blown, but it is the very best amp I had, and I d say I have heard the good ones, still admire berning though and they have no trouble with different voltage..
Do you use horn speakers? If so, may I ask which ones?
I just checked the price on your amp... unreal.... I thought low-power amps would be less expensive?
a
You got it just about right Chris, so if I go with a pair of mono amps I have to take up half my back yard to fit the second battery !
If you don't have practical experience with working with electricity have an experienced electrician check your AC circuit. People spend thousands of dollars on gear but freak out at the idea of paying an electrician. Loose connections at the mains input at the breaker panel, the circuit breaker, junction boxes within the circuit, intermittent short to ground, and the wall receptacle, can all cause a problem.Power your system down, unplug everything. Start with a power strip and connect the amp, preamp and one source component together.
Power up the system, preamp first. Is there still a problem?
If yes, remove the source and try another source.
If yes, you may have a problem with you AC circuit, the amp or the preamp.
If no, continue to add source components powered by the power strip until the problem surfaces.
Edits: 03/17/12
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