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I am trying to decide wich integrated tube amp I should buy. It is very tempting in this category to buy a pure class a integrated, but I find them a little under powered. My speakers are b&w nautilus 802. Any sugestions?.
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if you have the money, hard to go wrong with the macintosh integrateds....75wpc for the tube model (plenty of power unless you are head banging), more for the ss models, but keep in mind tube watts can sound ballsier than ss watts.
Nice Amp.. How much ?
Again,
IMO,
The 802 needs a lot of high current, and really needs to be pushed up at high volumes in big rooms to flush out it's midrange. I've a friend who uses a 250W per channel Marsh power amp with amazing results. To me, he has found the perfect amp for the 802, nice high current, warm sound. The Manley NeoClassic 500s would be another great choice, but again, aren't integrateds.
Perhaps a Griffin integrated that's 200w per channel, but as you get up into the $8000 range, it'd be just as easy to go pre-power combo.....
But then good amplification is rarely less than double one speakers anyway...
Thin man, in a powder blue suit, with eyes that slice you right through. The cut of his clothes are strange indeed, a hundred years too soon.
Since your speakers are REALLY power hungry buy the biggest SS amp that you can afford (think McIntosh, Accuphase, Krell) at least 175 wpc, but you can't have too much. Then listen to a variety of tube pre-amps such as Cary or Manley. This will give you a smooth tube sound with the required power that the B&Ws demand. I would buy used, especially in the power amp. A lesser quality amp or a lower powered amp will not bring out the best that those speakers have to offer.
I really liked how those sound, but the required amplification was more than I wanted to spend.
Baba-Booey to you all!
B&W's don't like tubes.
Why are you looking for a tube integrated?
Maybe a tube pre and a good ss amp.
I use tubes with Nautilus 800's with no problems. I have 140 watt mono-blocks with seperate external high capacitance power supplies. The 802's should not be much different in power requirements, in fact I also own 802's. Unless you need absolute nose bleed volumes, tubes will work great. I would really take what anyone says about speakers not working with tubes with a grain of salt because no one else knows besides you if it really will work, try it out for your self before you validate any decisions either for tubes or against for any speaker, I think you will be surprised with the outcome. Compare the solid state amps to the tubes with a variety of music to make your decisions. I was dead set on a pair of ML33's or a pair of the newer 436's, but after listening to tubes with the N800's, I was sold, even my wife said it was night and day in the way the music was portrayed for the better with these tube amps I am using.
http://www.octave.de/english/products/PowerAmplifiers/INFO-MRE130.htm
Ciao,
Audioquest4life
That's pushing pretty hard on the limits of what can be done with a KT-88, especially if they package the amp with Chinese ones. Is it specified that this amp runs in class A? Also, have you really noticed a significant improvement with the additional capacitence? Many have found that these monstrous capacitors really don't help out too much.
I have EH KT88's in the mono amps. They replaced TAD KT-88's. The KT-88's are driving my Nautilus 800's in a room that is 24' feet long and 18 feet wide. My listening position is about 38% from the back wall, escapes me exactly right now, but anyway at that position I can listen at 1/3 volume hitting 90-95dbs all day long, with ease and a lot of room to spare, more then enough volume for me. If I wanted to go higher I could go to 11 and the volume would be about 100db or so. I have a high/low gain setting on my preamp which is set to low.
The outboard power supply capacitors offered improvement in bass, depth and more dynamic punch. I think they add about somewhere from 45,000 to 60,000 PF's per power supply. I can run the monoamps without them, but then the sound is not as powerful or detailed as with the extra power supplies. The mono-amps drive these speakers to almost the same volume levels without the external power supplies as I have not driven them to ear splitting levels.
V/r
Audioquest4life
I'm glad you're in the 2% of the population that can afford 140wpc tube mono-blocks, I'm sure they're amazing.
Maybe someone gave him those....
Maybe he won the lottery, maybe he got them used, maybe they were old models that were highly discounted....
He was somehow able to get the speakers.... so...
At the end of the day, if anything, amps are JUST AS IMPORTANT as the speakers, and they often cost twice as much. There exists the possibility that some might have to learn this the hard way. I used to think that the N802s weren't a very good speaker, - but after I heard them with the Marsh amps, - I realized that they are just, (probably), a bit less flexible and ones options will be more limited with matching equipment...
IMO, it's high time that we stop placing so much emphasis on speakers: because they are the most visible, or for whatever reason, all too often, people shell out well over 50% of their budget on the speakers alone. When in fact, it should it should flip the other way in favor of amplification.
Thin man, in a powder blue suit, with eyes that slice you right through. The cut of his clothes are strange indeed, a hundred years too soon.
You said:
"IMO, it's high time that we stop placing so much emphasis on speakers: because they are the most visible, or for whatever reason,..."
Those reasons would be that the speaker is doing the hard work of translating an electrical signal into a mechanical movement of air. An amplifier simply adds gain to an existing signal. For a given dollar spent, speakers make much more difference in a system than does the amplification. It is *quite* reasonable to devote 50% of the budget on speakers.
This is NOT to say that amps cannot dramatically affect the sound quality, they can. But it is a matter of degree. Speakers have MUCH more impact on the final sound heard. It's not even close, IMHO.
-RW-
R,
It is *quite* reasonable to devote 50% of the budget on speakers.
I tend to agree, but it really depends on the speakers.
Maybe it is my Magnepan colored glass, but no way I would blow 50% of my budget on Magnepans. Pick a popular model like the 1.6s. I think they go for something like $1700 these days. No way in hell a $1700 frontend, pre, and amp would work with these. I doubt you could find an amp that could drive them for $1700...or do them justice.
I definitely agree about the speakers (and the room) having more of an impact....but the amp/ speaker relation is often just as important.
the amp does a lot more than amplify the signal, - it adds tonal character: (of course, some amps add more tonal character than others. It also is important HOW the amplifier drives the speakers. As is the case here, an amplifier with higher current does a, (most people recognize), BETTER job with the N802s than a lower current could. An amplifier does a whole lot more than just add gain to a signal, - it also plays a major role in creating a soundstage... And if you've ever compared the same brand of integrated amp, to its pre-amp/stereo power amp combo, and then again to its pre-amp/mono-blocks combo, - (if a company does that), - in most cases you'll notice an improvement in imaging, stereo separation, and "relaxed," natural character as you go up the line. For example: as great an amp as the Manley Stingray is, - its bigger brother the NeoClassic 250 or 500 monoblocks are considerably better. And as great as the Manley Stingray is, - there's no way that it should be mated with the N802.
As many will tell you, the N802 really needs to be throttled with a balls to the wall amplifier. Some speakers respond well to an amp that doubles it's wpc with a doubling in resistance. Some speakers, - like horns, - don't care as much...
Still, I would've been more correct to say that it's important to no overemphasize the importance of speakers at the expense of a holistic system approach.
At the end of the day, the R&D, topology, and individual parts that make up the amplification are justifiably as costly as a well designed speaker.
in my opinion....
Thin man, in a powder blue suit, with eyes that slice you right through. The cut of his clothes are strange indeed, a hundred years too soon.
I'll bet that sounds fantastic! I shudder to think of that investment cost, but if one has the means I'll raise my glass in appreciation.
Baba-Booey to you all!
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