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"For me, the LP is the format," Abrahamsson says. "There is no difference when it comes to CD or digital download. I think that ultimately all that's going to survive are vinyl and digital downloads." In other words, vinyl will appeal to audiophiles and DJs while everyone else will use digital downloads. The CD will, as Big Black noted, go the way of the eight-track.http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/2007/02/10cdformat.html
Follow Ups:
First of all, there are millions and millions of CD players out there. Count how many you have, I have at least 8 in my house, including computer drives.Secondly, computers will be using CD based mediums for years to come. They might have Bluray writers, or HD-DVD writers, but they will still have CD players and writers.
Thirdly, CD's are ridiculously cheap to manufacture. They are overpriced. That is why they are not selling well. If all CD's cost $10 or less, as they should, they would sell a ton more.
Not the production cost. Costs a lot to push product through distribution channels are huge: shipping, handling, storage, other inventory costs, not to mention retailer markup. These go "poof" when distribution is via download.How many songs on CD typically? Eight, ten, twelve? Doesn't matter: at $1.00/song/download the profits are relatively outrageous.
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config ... but always looking for cost effective improvements
(nt)
Audiophiles hated cd when it came onto the scene -- it's primary and only real advantage was convenience and boy oh boy did it ever have that over LP. You can store 80 minutes without having to flip it over. You could buy portable machines - put them in cars, they take up far less space, don't need to be handled with kid gloves, no real need to be cleaned or and you could actually touch the surface and still play just fine.And the sound has improved a heckuva lot too over the years.
BUT, when an item's main feature is convenience then how on earth is it going to compete with MP3?
Answer -- no way at all. MP3 can be downloaded in lossless compression and really 192kbs for most non classical genres is more than enough for decent sound out of portable devices -- remember the MASSES rule the technology not audiophiles -- the masses don;t give a rat's ass about SACD or DVD Audio which is why both are going to eventually go the way of DAT and other "who the hell cares" technologues. Sony tries to boost sales by sticking it on DVD players for $150.00 but nobody is buying the machine for SACD - It;s already dead it's just in the legal battle over who is going to pull the plug on the respirator. New title Vinyl sales thumped DVD Audio And SACD combined -- that is all that needs to be said about that.
MP3 is marvelous for convenience and piracy not withstanding is pretty much free for anyone who knows even a little about computers. Going to Bittorent and you can download the complete works of say Johnny Cash in a few hours. Pick out the songs you like disgard the rest - you can transfer said songs to your $40.00 mp3 player that never skips and boom endless music for zero money. Illegal - ethically wrong etc but that is something that the music industry can;t stop -- they certainly are not going to convince the majority to spend $25.00 a SACD on something that sounds a bit better and probably won't anyway on the majority of East Coast inspired loudspeakers in home theater lack of subtlety stereos that make up 99% of what is sold.
Even the DJ's will go to this because as one noted -- it's just too much of a pain to lug the vinyl around town when a laptop and one other hand held gizmo can play a far wider selection.
I have two hard drives here in Korea - I can download pretty much the complete works of all classical music that has ever been recorded by anyone free!! It is far more convenient than lugging scratchable cds around with me.
All that said I buy (or intend to buy) the music I keep -- I use the downloading to listen before I buy (which stores do anyway by allowing you to listen to the cd). But I doubt the vast majority would do as I do.
Vinyl I will buy because it sounds a helluva lot better -- but the turntable kit is very expensive to be done properly.
I have thought about buying new cd replay but I may go with MP3 and spend a larger sum on the turntable in the future. Get a good USB DAC for the MP3 and perhaps that is the best way to go. One could simply go to one's local library and take all the cd's and download them to one's hard drive in lossless compression and one would have no use for a cd player. Most DACs now come with USB capability.
bye bye cd -- vinyl never left and it isn't going to anytime soon -- it is the last vestage of musical heritage that both the old audiophiles revere and the young kids latch onto as the hip club sound. Probably because despite the technobabble - it actually sounds superior.
if you have spent a lot on a high-end CD player recently and are worried you'll have nothing to take advantage of that in future CD offerings, can't you start burning your own uncompressed CD-R's from the hard drive and play them just fine? If so, why worry?
Are there any sites that feature lossless redbook CD compressed files that can be downloaded yet? And would those be ridiculously long to download an entire CD's worth? Just wondering, since I haven't been into this kind of stuff.
Well if I had endless money I would buy an Audio Note DAC and transport but I have to make decisions down the line. My decisions financially already mean that I have to teach another year in Korea.So MP3 is a savior of sorts because the cost of a 250gig external hard drive including the 3 inch case is $130.00. It may be as slow as mollasses to download stuff - but really it;s not bad - 11 Johnny Cash CD's in a couple of days while also downloading the entire 7 year run of Star Trek TNG, Voyager, DS9 - those three series alone in Canada would run $3000.00 in DVD purchases. Free and they all fit nicely on the hard drive -- if the hard drive fails big deal. Quality isn't as good sure and you basically have to watch it on your computer but I am not a videophile.
With music the files are far smaller - I have not downloaded classical because of the low bitrates but the rest is more than fine with my HD 600s whoich are not horrible cans by any means. These files even at 128 - 164 are usually quite acceptable. The thing is CD sound just isn't enough better over 128 to care in most cases.
Most libraries carry huge classical works - my University library has a music program and the selection was gigantic of jazz and classical - and my University is by no means large.
You can take those CD's home and burn them onto your home drive in lossless. Then run to the USB and let the DAC handle all the conversion.
The debate is then: Are you going to give up sound quality with all of this? Maybe a little but the money saved is staggering. Most people I know either have a huge music collection and a garbage stereo or a great stereo and not much music.
By all means make CDRs too. What I would like to see is some high end transport quality hard drives dedicated to music. Then none of this stuff about transport quality will come up.
(nt)
I don't think so. CD-ROMs with software is a big option still. And computer geeks are not necessarily audio geeks, but they sure ought to be the kind of guys that would download over buying a CD-ROM if ever there were the type.I live out in the county where the minimum high speed price is $60 per month plus $400 in equipment to put on my rooftop. All that just to be able to download songs into a hard drive? Not every music lover wants to go to this type of setup and will be wanting the old CD format. Some old music lovers don't even own a computer, amazingly enough. What happens to them? No one will meet their demand for music? I doubt it will be a complete obsolescence soon. Maybe in time, but not imminently. And, yes, nothing lasts forever. Although I would have thought the LP would have truly disappeared by 2007 when I was getting into high-end phono back in 1990 (when I discovered how bad my CD's really were in comparison at that time).
Kurt,Forget about downloading music via satellite unless you want to spend about $120 a month. All satellites have a Fair Access Policy (FAP). For example $50 a month may get you 160MB in a 4 hour period, $70 may get you 320MB in 4 hours on Hughes. Wild Blue is more of a total for the month which starts at 7.5GB on the basic plan.
When you break FAP you are downgraded for 56K for 4 hours on Hughes, or downgraded to a lower speed (I don't know exactly what) on Wild Blue for as long as a month, depending on how much you went over your download limit before the FAP kicked in.
I will be able to get DSL in a few months, been on satellite 7 years.
Is Red Book dead (As a recording format/standard)? Not quite yet. It looks much healthier that both SACD and DVD-A. Is CD dead as a recording media? What are the alternatives? I wouldn't mind to keep my music on a very large hard drive, but then I have to make sure it won't crash (so I need some kind of RAID), and also I need something I can play the recordings at different locations, in and our the house, so I need some extra electronics as well.So: for the time being I've decided to stay with CD as a media, because (a) it does not crash as a hard drive, (b) I can play it on variety of devices, most do not depend on having some software runing. So I consider CD convenient kind of media. The future development may create some other, more convenient alternatives. As it stands now I have roughly 2,000 CDs, may be more. I have a few CD players, including portable ones, so I can't have all my collection on iPod or even on a large hard drive, again, I would need RAID, and I just don't want to get involved. Digital download? You need some extra time on your hands.
.
http://torrentfreak.com/emi-music-boss-the-cd-is-dead/
EMI have been saying this for years privately and more recently in public.
Arkiv Music did a polled customers not long ago on the subject of downloading classical music including importance of high resolution formats. I'm not sure whether they have published their findings, but I know I could go for this. Will it happen? Maybe not for copywrite reasons.LPs are a farce. The handling this medium is for masochists; I abandoned those rituals 20 years ago. Higher resolution than 16/44.1 would be nice but the best-made CDs made today surpass LP easily.
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config ... but always looking for cost effective improvements
nt.
I don't agree with that quote at all. IMO, CDs can be, when done right, a bona fide audiophile medium, much like a well-done LP (I actually think they're better, but that's a discussion for another day). There's just way too music available on CD--much of it VERY good-sounding, contrary to popular opinion--for it to just go away. The same things that kept analog alive--a huge back catalog, potentially excellent sound, and maybe a sense of nostalgia--is going to keep CD alive as well.
The cd was new technology 25 years ago.
It's problems are inherent to 16 bit/44.1. kHz.
Records sound better to many because they simply sound more realistic. There is no reason to debate this point anymore. People can decide for themselves.
I have both SACD and DVD-A. They are mostly better sounding than CD's of same to me, but they are now past prime also. Manufactuers have moved on to.
Has anyone noticed that there are few good cd players available now?
That configuration can be whipped into far better shape, only no one (hardly) has done it yet.
...
My HDCD discs are pretty good too. I do have plenty of cd's that sound better than the record of same.
Vinyl has survived as an "audiophile" format in a niche market sold thru boutique etailers. At the very least cd and sacd will continue to do the same. What is more interesting to me is whether DVD will continue to be a viable format or go the way of vhs and beta. I believe I read a statistic one time that said there were more DVD players in the world than cd players.
at least 1000 cds ,mostly of excellent classical peformances. I plan to listen to these for my remaining years, hopefully a long time and have an excellent system for cd playback. So I see no need for any other formats in my future. I also have a modest(600 lps) collection that I mostly bought in the 70- 80s that I also still listen to but have no interest in buying any new lps. So digital downloads are something I have no interest in.
two very strange bedfellowsI've yet to hear a DJ that wasn't both tone deaf and bent on making a stinking racket unfit for human ears.
> > > "I've yet to hear a DJ that wasn't both tone deaf and bent on making a stinking racket unfit for human ears."I agree completely, but the same can be said for quite a few audiophiles.
Please give me a break. Anyone that writes that downloads are the same as the CD is.... Can't really be that mean here but come on!! I can hear the difference on my car system. I guess that everyone can just keep transferring their CD's to hard disc format, no wait, can't do that. Uh, lets try transferring the LP's to your hard drive. Yeah, right. And then you can bring it out to your mobile environment whatever that may be. Let's face it, if you are reading this forum you probably value how your music sounds so if you think the record companies are going to give you a full rez version of your music to download I have just one thing to say. "Put the crack pipe down!" Even if they did it would be at CD sample rates. Please don't waste time going off on the jitter free rants. That is not the point of the post. Cd's for better or worse are going to be around for a long time.
www.audiospecialtiesofnm.com
"CD's are in their last throes"
---V.P. Dick Cheney
.
upgrade as you won't have that time lapse between your jammin' tunes!
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
And it's on record!
.
nt
NT_
John Crossett____________________________
It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.
> And it's on record! <33, 45, or 78?
%22In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.%22 - Yogi Berra
That would have been my response.
;-)
You people just need to hear a decent digital front end is all, truly.
Well Bob I have a question - Audio Note has USB capability and assuming you use lossless compression and run it through an AN DAC you still should get exceptional results. I have a small headphone DAC/AMP from Head-fi (Total Bithead) which bypasses the laptop's crappola noises and lets the external DAC do all the work. Now granted this machine is $199.00 so you can;t expect the world but I use this thing every single day for several hours and the sound even with relatively revealing HD 600s is quite nice indeed.I loaded all my CD's onto my external hard drive before coming to Korea and put them all in lossless format (which takes up big space). I have hear many $1000.00 - $3000.00 players that frankly didn't impress me any more than what I am getting from this 4 AAA battery rig.
I don't know how good the USB portion of the AN DAC is because their technology suggests a one times through play but I should think in theory bypassing a tranport completely may actually be better.
RGA,The Audio Note *kit* DAC offers USB input, which is actually the Hagerman USB converter. Despite the considerable opportunity, Peter does not like the sound from any USB input he has heard so it is notably absent from any of the factory-built DACs.
It certainly is a compelling option from the standpoint of convenience, though. I work from home in an office downstairs where I currently feed (any of over 1,000 songs)via iTunes & Airport Express through an M3, Kit4 and a pair of E's. The CD's and LP's are all upstairs in the living room and while they sound far better when I'm up there in the evening, they lose quite a lot filtered through the carpet and floor!
I haven't heard the kit DAC w/USB, although I'd like to, and I doubt that any of the dealers have either since they don't sell the kits.
Keep your ears and your mind open.
I just wish we could have our cake and eat it too. One of the big attractions of those 300 disc players for me was the load all your discs in and you could get to any track instantly from any artist. This is less attractive to those who listen primarily to classical music but for pop, rock etc where you like that one hit wonder song the 300 discer is perfect. You are not going to take the time to load a disc in to listen to one song but a mega player will get the disc being used a lot more.The hard drive is practically perfect for this - it's not going to replace the high end rig in serious listening but then even Peter's own CD replay does not replace his vinyl rig. So the slope is already slippery - we traded vinyl for inferior sound and gained huge convenience - the digital download makes another trade this time for practically supreme convenience.
Now according to you Peter does not like the USB feeds he has heard -- then by George develop a good one. There has to be a way. Better hard drive - better cable - a better blinking laptop - or a bypass th computer altogether set-up. Those hard drive machines from Sony - maybe something is there than can be jiggery pokereyed to get right. (Doctor Who fans rejoice).
I find it amusing though that the CD demise is being discussed while LP continues a resurgence. Not many would thunk it in 1988. In my town of Nanaimo there are four place on one street selling new and or used vinyl. One only sells Vinyl - the other two sell more vinyl than CD and the third A&B Sound a huge big box chain has started carrying vinyl and is on the verge of bankruptcy. The giant future shop has such a tiny cd selection as to not even be worth mentioning. SACD is dead, DVD Audio is Dead, CD is 95 with cancer, hemeroids, and a family waiting to cash in the million dllar insurance policy.
This quote from Jeff Davidson sums it up. You can see this happening all over, from the boardrooms of the automobile industry to the Pentagon to the main-stream audio equipment companies.The main advantage of the physical compact disc to those audiophiles not burdened with vinyl chauvinism is its freedom from tinkering and hacking. Downloads via broadband would be as cheap and convenient as digital voting, but we see how secure that turned out to be.
> > .
I just bought one in fact.
they have thousands of CDs on sale there, Take a look.
Spoken like a true nut case!I would hope someone, anyone, could put the "resurgence" of vinyl in perspective by providing numbers and not just audiophile daydreams.
I find it so funny to see LPs of music that was obviously recorded digitally and mastered digitally: great to see all of the problems and artifacts of vinyl thrown in on top of those of digital.
Nothing wrong with liking vinyl, so long as one keeps things in perspective.
Oh dear - by the same logic Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are doomed as the prospect of video downloads have rendered them obsolete before they've even taken off.Just the usual drivel if you ask me.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
cd isnt going anywhere anytime soon.
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