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Dear Tutti
I had a buddy of mine come over and listen to the system today
I like him coming over as he pick up things that have changed for the worse in the system
I really appreciate his honesty, and good ears
I am never offended, but often curse I have missed the obvious
Another post reminded me that this is a very difficult thing to say
Should we say a system sounds like crap?
Follow Ups:
No, you can't tell anyone that and remain friends - or even remain speaking!!! You can say, "Hey, I'll bet yours would sound even better if you ......" Miss Manners would approve.Meantime, how about this one that's now happened to me twice: Different buddies have admired my sound system, are not themselves audiophiles, but their pocketbooks led them to purchase on someone else's recc a MUCH higher end set of components than mine. They did not get spectacular sound because neither has a clue about even how to set them up properly. One is a concert musician himself, so knows music, but not systems; his wife's decorator stuffed his Linn speakers just where she wanted them out of the way! The other is a HT fan, who now has 3 systems all over his bachelor house with no WAF to deal with, but not a clue as to how to position a speaker, etc. Go figure! No justice....
So either of them could have bragging rights over me, should they want it, in the acquisition race in audio, but neither will hold a candle to my system's sound on their best days!
...
About the best I could do would be to play some of my basic test material over the system and let the person hear what their system does with it: that is, full orchestra, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, and piano, though some allowance would have to be made for their tastes. But it's not up to me to tell them what they should like.Making some simple suggestions about set up, correct connections (i.e., speakers in phase), and speaker placement would be in order.
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
> Many folks ask me to listen to their systems asking me what I
> think.I ask if they like it, if they say yes then I say its good.
> If they say they feel somethings not right I will tell them my
> opinion.But many just want someone else to validate that the system
> sounds good and to be nice many times I just agree, why make them
> suffer with the truth, ignorance is truly bliss with audio.I would actually disagree with this. If they ask you opinion, I would give it to them. How do you know if they simply want validation or not.
For over five years, I have been trying to find someone in my area who appreciates audio to listen to my system. I would truly like an honest opinion and some suggestions about what changes might be considered. Mostly, I am happy with my system, but occasionally I hear other systems (sometimes, much less costly systems) that seem to do things much better than mine. I would hate to think that with the amount of $ I've got into it, that maybe I am missing an obvious tweak or adjustment that could take my setup to the next level.
Come to think of it I won't even tell a non audiophile that his/her Bose system blowsThere are too many other ways to deal with this type of situation
Even if your intentions are above board, I doubt this approach would produce the desired results
You don't have to be rude to make a point
Julien
"There's someone in my head, but it's not me"
When I was in school - my father had a hi-fi, well sort of, had tone controls.My friend & I used to listen..
He would keep turning up the bass till it was thuddy & muffled...
I kept cranking up the treble..
We couldn't find a common ground..
We both thought the others setting was crap, loved our own..
. . . but I would NEVER tell him his rig is crap. That's just plain rude.
nt
In my opinion: nowadays, no audio gear sound like crap. Not even mass market products (low to midfi from Japan, Taiwan, Korea or mainland China), not even Bose home theatre set ups. They all sound reasonable. (It's the same with cars: none makes bad cars nowadays). Of course, they do not satisfy audiophile criteria, but that's not the reason to call them "crap". If a set up sounds screwed, it must be due to a defective component or because someone made a faulty termination.
this is a fairly obvious point,,,but i dont think any one of us would like it if anyone told us our system was crap.
Also I see the word "audiophile" bandies about as if it gives the owner some sort of special quality that no one else has..
Its music guys! thats what its about... not being an "audiophile"
I helped a neighbor set up his sort of mid-fi system. I honestly don't think he had ever heard of the A word. With the graciousness of his wife we were able to get a fairly decent soundstage working.At a small dinner party a few weeks later, one of my neighbors guests called him an audiophile. That was three years ago. He and his wife are now washing and spinning his old LP collection, and truly enjoying their music all over again.
been taken back by people that maybe have 2-3 cds when they hear my sys and say that it does not sound that good...
i know that i do not have the best sys in the world and sometimes it does sound like crap (we all have bad audio days), but when somebody which is competent (20+ years?) in hifi has something to say, i listen and try to learn...my 2 kunas!
v.i.
........ ………But if his system is truly that awful sounding I would have to say so. Of course, if your buddy likes how his system sounds then your opinion is irrelevant unless your buddy is unaware of components that may better suit his needs.Personally, I don’t really give a hoot if my friends like my audio system or not.
Smile
Sox
A good way to approach this is to say specifically what's good about the system. Often, the owner will take what's *not* mentioned as what might need improvement....
Why would you use a word no one wants to hear, let alone a "friend"?If you have some constructive criticism and a little tact, that would be a different story.
You can't handle the truth!
Many times people do NOT want to hear the truth...
...the ONLY response is, "Does this shirt make me look stupid?"As for the original question: no, it's cruel and gauche to use the word "crap," unless the friend asks specifically, "Does my system sound like crap?" Even then, I would probably blunt my reply. If you're asked for details--and if the friend really wants constructive criticism--confine yourself to suggesting avenues for improvement (and I don't mean carting the lot off to Goodwill). But if you value the friendship, it's usually best to dodge the question tactfully and change the subject.
Besides, if it really does sound like crap, he's no audiophile or he'd already know.
I occasionally get together for listening sessions with a couple audiophile buddies in our respective homes. We are often evaluating gear. It's extremely helpful to have a second and third set of ears to either support or refute listening impressions, and a critique can be offered in a constructive manner without hurting anyone's feelings.I'd rather not have someone come over and tell me things sound great when that's not what they believe.
"sounds like crap," is not especially helpful. I often have guys with good ears come over to give me their opinions simply because I:
1. might recognize that something is not optimum but I can't really put my finger on it. I am more sensitive to freq response and timbre than I am to soundstaging, but when a friend comes over and criticizes my soundstaging, I find that soundstaging improvements make my whole system sound better.
2. might know what is wrong, but have run out of ideas to fix it. Four or six ears and 2 or three brains are better than two.
if s/he likes it. I have the best hifi system I have heard. Simply because I have voiced it to my needs. This is despite the fact that I am not happy with it and feel it needs improving. I suspect all my audiophile friends think theirs are the best systems they have heard. One friend said that he heard another system which cost 30 times as much as his but was only marginally better.
I never critise anybody else's system unless they ask. In which case I would give them an honest (but not offensive) answer and always qualify by saying that there are always going to be differences of opinion based on preference or simply how one hears things.
nt
(nt)
Many folks ask me to listen to their systems asking me what I think.I ask if they like it, if they say yes then I say its good.If they say they feel somethings not right I will tell them my opinion.But many just want someone else to validate that the system sounds good and to be nice many times I just agree, why make them suffer with the truth, ignorance is truly bliss with audio.
Many people have never heard a great system setup, audiophiles included.You don't often find them at shows and salons, but occasionally you do in other's homes and studios.
One may think their system nearly perfect, until they hear what they're missing.
"Let me help..."
> Many folks ask me to listen to their systems asking me what I
> think.I ask if they like it, if they say yes then I say its good.
> If they say they feel somethings not right I will tell them my
> opinion.But many just want someone else to validate that the system
> sounds good and to be nice many times I just agree, why make them
> suffer with the truth, ignorance is truly bliss with audio.Good approach. Different people listen for different things. Deep, thunderous bass and sizzling highs may be the end-all, be-all for one person and really give them a lot of pleasure for the music they listen to. Me? I look for realism in acoustic instruments and voices and place that well above other factors. Even then, what helps trigger that realism in my mind's eye may be substantially different that the sound cues someone else needs.
Same thing with most other passions. Ever heard two auto enthusiasts debate which car is best? Or two baseball fanatics argue pitching vs hitting?
That said, it is certainly possible, when asked, to offer an honest opinion without belittling the other fellow. Never any need to be an intentional jerk.
If a system sounds good to the owner, who's to gainsay them. If they like, but are a bit dissatisfied, then by all means give them hints to aid in their find their own version of sonic nivarna.Besides, what I think is right may not (heck, is probably not) the only correct answer.
people know i am i hifi buff and when they ask me, i am honest. i guided the to make what they have sound its best but i wont lie to them if its crap. even a crappy system can be made to sound better with some setup tips.speaker placement, speakers off the floor, bass and treble adjustments for most natural sound, advice to not play the system into distortion levels.
these interim measures will give them time to realize whether its worth going for better equipment. once they hear better sound, they usually start wanting more.
a friend at work came to me bragging that he bought bose speakers. i asked why he didnt consult me first as he knew i was int sound. we went and heard some real speakers and he relalized his mistake and returned the bose for polks. this was preceded by a polk demo at cc set up by me with the hotel california dvd as demo.
He ask what I thought I said go polk.Better of the 2 evils.Tried to talk him into something better but waiste of time. I have a good friend who is a cable nut has a great SS system all electrostatic krell lexicon. etc he keeps asking me to hear his improved system. He changes cables to the stars of the month some as costly as cars. When I demo this system to me it still sounds like krell monos with martin logan CLS 2z,these costly cable upgrades;) never seem to make any real changes.If I can help and they want it I will give opinions or help with placement etc and I have helped 100s of folks with systems over the years but my point is that most audiophiles dont want a true opinion its there system and cash if they are having fun whats wrong with that? Isnt that the point? For you will never have the absolute sound for this doesnt exist so why beat yourself up chasing it? Just enjoy the music and system.
so you think polk audio as it exists today is hifi. IMHO, there isnt much difference between bose and polk.
please dont be insulted...I just think you werent too much of a help to your friend *wink*
i let him make the decision and the choice was between shat cc had available for exchange, he had already laid down the $900. together we auditioned the sub/sat system, after i left he gravitated to a tower with powered sub built in.his dough was already tied up into cc and he made a very good choice. a guy could do much worse than polks, even today.
...regards...tr
The most important thing any system can do is make it's owner happy. Why rain on someone's parade? Just let them enjoy what they have.
A good approach.
Regards,
Geoff
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