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I have never posted here but have been reading for years. I have been an audio fan for a number of years, equipement has come and gone. A few years back I fell into hard times and had to sell it all to make ends meet. I went for a couple years without any music at all. Not even a portable or a boombox!About couple years ago I started frequenting this forum and getting ideas to get myself back into some gear to listen to some tunes.
I knew that I would not be able to afford some of the gear that I had owned in the past but I just wanted to listen to some music, even if it meant low/mid hi-fi. First I decided I would purchase some Magnepan MMG($500) and go from there. I had never heard planars but was convinced by the reviews at Audio Review and the people at the Planar Speaker Asylum that they were worth the money. I got some good advice there.
I also learned that Magnepans can be demanding speakers and try to find a cheap amp to drive them. I already had learned that to drive these speakers I would need a decent amp. again I searched the forums to find an inexpensive amp for these speakers. I resorted to a vintage reciever, a Sansui reciever from the 70's(9090db) I discovered in my local paper($125). It puts out enought power to drive the MMG's. Maybe not the best amp in the world but it does the job. The reciever is old, the amp section is good but the preamp I found to be a bit noisey and have some probelms.
I found a CDP made by Sherwood Newcastle that was being sold a u-bid, I won the bid and was a buyer. A pretty good unit for the money($110 plus shipping). All I will say is that the unit is above it's price.
So, I gpt myself some tunes now an decided to go back to the pages here and find out what I could do about the preamp. I read alot about preamps and found alot of good information. I really wanted to build a Foreplay preamp but I did not quite have the money for it and did not really have any electronics skills either. From here I stumbled onto the DIY Audio site where I came across a thread about a $20 preamp that is built from Radio shack parts. The post was from a Harry Haller. I was complete with pics and instructions. I must say that the looks were simple and did not have any features to speak of, one input and one output. I built the preamp in one evening for the stated price... about $20(it really was very simple). In terms of sound this thing amazed me! I had previously owned a Marantz that retailed for $1000, An AV-600(THX Pro-logic), again not the last word in hardware but not exactly on the bottom either. It has been some time since I heard the Marantz but I am tempted to say that the Marantz has nothing on the RS self built $20 preamp(except more inputs and a remote). I cannot be dogmatic about this beause I never heard the Marantz with the MMG's the Sherwood and the Sansui.
Maybe it is just a "synergy" thing going on here but I cannot believe this combination! Some of you are probably laughing right now at this system or maybe stopped reading long ago because this story does not intrest you, but I wanted to share this story for those who want to be able to hear good sound but dont have alot of money or don't know where to start.
Finally I made some of my owne interconects with some radio shack magnet wire, some Radio Shack RCA's and some clear packing tape. I use the for both outputs from the CDP and inputs to the Sansui amp. Again here I was floored at the ability of low cost gear to perform at high-end performance levels. I am still using some RS heavy guage wire for speaker wire but plan to make something of my own soon.
Please don't laugh until you have sat in the sweet spot in my room. I know that it can get better, I'm not dogging out high-end gear,but I cannot imagine much better at this price.
Magnepan MMG speakers $500.00
Sherwood Newcastle CDC-680- $130.00
Sansui 9090db(reciever-amp) $125.00
Harry Haller+ Radio Shack homemade preamp $ 20.00
Home-brew interconects. $ 7.00 each
Speaker cables - Radio Shack $ 10.00
Total $792.00I'm not nearly as poor as I once was but I have a different perspective now and I have learned that there is a bit too much hype in hi-end audio. Hey if you've to the buck great, but if you don't just do your homework and try, try, try, and with a bit of luck you will have some good music. I still plan to upgrade some stuff down the road, maybe an DAC or maybe I will still build that Forplay and I may make some room treatments, but I won't be spending any big bucks anytime soon. No need to,it sound that good.
Follow Ups:
I've got a vintage Sansui as well as an amp costing 20X times that. All I can say is that switching between the two I always look forward to the Sansui - like an old friend - always warms you up ! If simply for the sound it's hard to justify spending more but looking from another perspective if you can afford new gear & hi-end stuff why not - it creates jobs & gets the economy moving ! As long as you enjoy the music nothing wrong with either approaches.
c
I've never heard other speakers sound as goood with cheap electronics than Maggies, especially some of the older models. If you're gonna build a cheap system that sounds good, the older/cheaper maggies are the way to go...
And they're not quite as fussy about placement as is often alleged, and they're not as hard to integrate with a sub as is often alleged. Hook some cheap Maggies up to a receiver or integrated amp with decent power and current, stick 'em in a room as far away from a wall as practical, add a good sub if you really need that bottom octave...and you may well wind up with as good or better sound than plenty of systems with box-type speakers. At the same time, they're good enough that careful matching and placement will change "good" into "sublime."
HI, go see my system in inmates mate!never had to sell the lot but ain't never been rich.
it is very very good, audio buddies do stay, fer hours.
When I first got more serious about good sound, a veteran of the audiophile wars told me that for a thousands (or less) you can get 90% of the sound that it requires tens of thousands to acquire. He regretted spending as much as he had over the years and had scaled back. I have kept that in mind in building my system. I recently put together a second system that gave me 80-90% of the sound my primary system does for 25% of the cost. The second system cost about as much as yours, and it is very, very satisfying. As others have noted, spending a lot of money isn't as important as spending money wisely.Thanks for the reminder.
Thanks for you support and for sharing your experience with me. One othere thing at these forums that has got my attention is room treatments. I have not done much about that yet but I will be looking into some DIY treatments soon.The thing that makes me believe that room treatments can influence the sound so much is the fact that if you move the same system to almost any room in your home or whatever, the sound will change and sound different, sometimes very different. We are talking the very same system! So room acoustics must be a biggie. I think they have been overlooked by many for too long. Probably one because not to many retailers sell room treatments, and two because where you can buy room treatments they are not inexpensive and one more thing, face it there not as fun.
Look back through the pages of this forum and find the 'Audio Perfectionist' thread, then use the link to download the two free journals.There's excellent advice on room treatment with basic DIYing materials you'd find at the hardware store.
I'm going to set up the following system for someone...H/K 930 receiver- $100
Athena S1 speakers w/ stands- $300 (These little speakers are **killer**)
Cambridge CD4SE CD player- $200Throw in RS speaker cables, DIY interconnects... $50.
Total price $650.
The HK reciever you mention was also a choice of mine but it did not have as much power for my MMG's as the Sansui, if I were using some more effiecint speakers I likly would have gone that route.
He does not have a website as far as I know. Just an inmate at another forum. Just click on the link or go to "DIY Audio.com" then to the search engine. Type in "simple passive preamp" and it will come up with his name next to the thread link.It is really just a volume control but it is pure sound and I am sure that with better parts it can be inproved. I did not use the wire that was called for. I stripped wire wrap wire. I used the RS magnet wire(30 guage).
I also used a the stereo volume control as I could not fing the mono's.
And I could not find the plexy box- so I found a wood box at the craft store for $3.00.
Try it and have fun. I could not only believe that it worked... but how great it sounded.
I find speaker and listener position within the room are critical components, and the cost to upgrade is free.And as far as bang for the buck, the CARA acoustic software can be the best $50 you can spend on a system, if you're resourceful with a PC.
Clickit!
Wow! The enjoyment you must get out of your system. I think this is totally bitchin. Doesn't the music sound so much sweeter when you still have money left for other things and haven't paid so much. I love it. Good listening to you sir,Ted
even though I'm happy about my system, I wonder if I really needed to spend all that money. If I could do it over again, I would make smart choices like you have.
The amount spent is of little consequence, as long as it makes you smile, and from your post, it does just that.May the tough times remain in your rearview.
This hobbey IS not about boxes! It's a means to an end; it's about the music! IMO, the speakers are the most important piece and you got it right with your Maggies. You are to be commended with your thought process and resourcefulness! As times goes by, reconsider the DIY path. I'm building a DIY Tube Amp that equals if not surpasses my Krell!! Lets see;, $350 kit versus a $2,500 Krell for the same if not better performance? Oh by the way, it's my first kit too and it's not difficult if your willing to take your time, follow directions, and patience. Soldering is NOT hard.At any rate, super job!!!
Kind Regards
Thanks for you comments and support.That sounds like a fun project building a tube amp. I do not know much about electronics but just building a few interconects and the passive preamp give me a little more confidence and the good results at an inexpensive price is very motivating. It is very easy to be content with this system of mine but I am afraid that I may have gained a new intrest other than music here, I guess you call it "DIY Electronics". I am still a little wary about ordering the Foreplay but my curiosity about tubes wiil probably win out over my apprehensions.
I don't mind spending some more money on stereo in it means learning moe about how it works and finding another hobby that goes side by side with listening to the music.
I am not there yet, and a tube amp probably will not work for my speakers but may I ask where I could find out more about the tube amp kit that you are speaking of? Thanks
http://www.velleman-kit.com/ YOu will have to scroll down and on the right you will find the k4040. I've listened to this Amp and it sounds absolutley phenominal. It blew my Krell system outta the water. No doubt, I'm a tube convert now.The Amp is not cheap though . . . . $850.00. It does put out 90 watts per channel so it WILL drive your Maggies with authority! Right now I'm building the k8020 Pre-Amp (scroll down just a bit more). So far, I've got 10 hour or so of construction and am over half way through.
I will tell you that the directions are very easy to follow and the kit components are of the highest quality. IMO, you will be very hard pressed to find a high output Tube Amp DIY kit at this price.
And Again, this set up blew my much more expensive Krells outta the water! NOt to mention, that I'm getting an education in the process and YEA' a little bragging rights too!!!!
Have fun with whatever you decide!!!!!
Kind Regards!!!
Itch
Thanks for the info and the support, I will check it out.
You have some nerve...putting together a great sounding system for as little as possible > :(oh wait...that's what we all should be doing...hmmm...nice job! :)
Sounds like you did put together yourself a real nice system there...congrats!!!!!!!
enjoy the music!
And fun. Sounds like you're having it. I once sold my entire Quad/B&W/Rabco system to pay an unexpected tax bill, and the experience was liberating. Much as we love this stuff, it's good to shuck it all once in a while and make a new start.
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Anybody who would laugh at your setup is probably really insecure. I'll bet it sounds more musical than quite a few high-dollar, high-end systems. Good going!I'm guessing that the weakest link is the receiver, but I'm impressed that it drives your MMGs. It probably also has a better sounding tuner section than most late-model receivers. Of course, radio is such a wasteland anymore....
Well, it is a reciever and it is not. I have disconectoed the amp section from the preamp by pulling the jumpers, so really it is like a stand alone amp right now. The amp is getting the signal from a passive preap(really a volume control knob).The Sansui reciever was rated at 125wpc(more like 135wpc) into 8ohms, I do't know what it translates into 4ohms but it seems to do the trick and the old thing seems to be able to handle the load. I am sure that there are better amps to drive them with and I ecpect that some day the old beast will give out and I will begin another search.
I do not use the FM portion of the reciever since the preamp is disconected. The FM tuner was decent but like I said the preamp(maybe just the volume pot?)had a problem getting the full signal to both channels. I have no quams about listening to FM, my problem is with most of the programing. I am interested at this point is finding a way to connect a computer to the stereo so that I can use the many thousands of internet radio programing out there.
Well done guyDid a similar, not exactly but similar, journey myself and the experience has thought me that this forum is indeed a goldmine for information and majority of the participants are selfless in departing information, and opinions, I am thankful to one and all for their contributions.
This hobby is a little like others. Photography, cars, boating, etc, etc. Some people feel they have to spend gobs of $$$$ and make lists of equipment costing even more $$$$. That's OK - I can't knock it, because I did it 30 years ago. As time went on - my "version" of the hobby changed from all that to spending more time just sittin' and listening. I don't want to "work" on the system any more because I can't imagine it sounding any better. It gives me goosebumps now and many tracks get me teary eyed no matter how many times I hear them. And it's not from sentimental reasons.I remember a car ad - I think for VW. It said, "Show people how smart you are, not how much money you have." So using your ears and changing a few things around you've got your own version of the holy grail! Personally I think that any system starting with Maggies needs only a little more help to be right up there with the best of them. I'm glad you pulled out of that slump so enjoy the music! "The truth is out there." Fran
nt
Ah, good job! Sounds like you tried the old packing tape ICs... if you have more patience, you could also try these http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diyce2.html These make great speaker cables too http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html Belden 89259 is a good US cable to use as there aren't any domestic cables that use a solid foil shield (and, is suppose to cut costs, the Brit cable started using ultra thin foil that disintigrates too easily... progress /_-) unless you get into flexible heliax from Andrew or Cablewave. In a pinch, you could probably grab a 40 foot roll of Monster cable tv hookup/extension cable (the kind with UHF screw on connectors) and hack that up to make 2 8-10 ft cables... the jacket isn't teflon but the cable itself isn't half bad (not tweak perfection, but easily available and cheaper than a whole 100' roll of 89259,.. their UHF cable is not nearly the rip-off their audio cables are). For interconnect, may I recommend the Sonic Frontiers locking RCA and the Deltron plugs pictured on my old plug page http://members.cox.net/yuzuha/plugs.html Chris and John over in the cable section are sure to have other recommendations for DIY IC and speaker cables.
I will probably attempt more IC as well a speaker cable. I will take your recomendations to heart, especially the Monster UHF cabel idea. Thanks
I admire you for living through the hard times and not losing site of the music.It had been along time till I was asked to put a system together for someone and I got back into music and my system.I have been through some hard times when even music was not enough to cure my ills so I know alittle about being down.Music is very therapeutic and I hope I always have a system to help me get through the hard times as with you.
BTW maggies were reference speakers up till recently.ENJOY!
it seems that you are enjoying your journey as much or more than many guys who have spent ten times as much! And that's all that really matters.
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