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Hello,I am looking for opinions on an upgrade path. Any input would be appreciated. Here is the situation:
Current setup:
Source: Sony 9000ES
Preamp: Adcom GFP 750
Amp: Marantz MA700 monoblocks (200W)
Speakers: B&W N805's
Sub: Paradigm PDR-10 (Left over from an old system)Budget: < $3000
Here are the scenario's I've been thinking of:
1) Upgrade speakers (B&W N804's)
2) Upgrade amp (?)
3) Upgrade sub (Rel Storm)The system is combined with my HT system but I am concentrating at improving 2channel performance. Which do you think would think would be the best way to go?
Follow Ups:
Here's a cheap upgrade: a tube line preamp added to what you currently have. Superb improvement, but you have to build it yourself.http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_tlp.html
Thanks for all the input. Really appreciate it. Here are some answers to some of the questions posted as follow ups.- The Adcom preamp is used in conjunction with a Marantz AV9000 HT processor through the adcom's external processor bypass loop. This is how I switch to HT. When listening to 2 channel, Dont need to even turn on the Marantz processor.
- The Adcom is used in passive mode. Have tried both and do prefer the passive.
- The Marantz monoblocks do not have balanced connections.
- Associated cabling is as follows,
Silver Audio Jetstream IC'c
Monster 2.4s bi-wire speaker cable.
Silver Audio Powerburst power cable- As for what it is exactly I am trying to improve... That's a bit more difficult to answer. After reading that question from some of you and thinking about it for a while, I came to the realization that my main driving force here is to spend money! :) I've got some cash to burn and I guess I got a case of upgradeitis. I guess that's the blunt truth of it. I am pretty happy with my system but know that there is better out there after hearing something like the Joseph Audio room at the HE 2002 expo! Obviously, that kind of sound involves much more money than is in my budget. I guess I wanted to know what is the biggest step I can take in that direction with a $3000 budget. I think detail is what I'm after. I know that's a bit general, sorry I can't be more specific. Thanks again for your input.
The system looks good to me. The speakers will have the biggest effect on the sound. If you like sub/satellite systems, maybe the Joseph Audio Signature minimonitors and a new sub (SVS, REL or Hsu)?If you need a small sub, try to pick up a slightly used Velodyne HGS-10 or HGS-12. Just make sure that it's a Series II. The early ones had some hum and reliability problems. They seem more common than the Sunfire equivalents and they can be hidden anywhere. The big Hsu's and other round subs look like black water heaters and most of the cube subs look like ugly end tables. The Velodynes are neat black acrylic cubes.
.
It sounds to me like you've got a pretty nice system already.
If you don't notice any high freq. rolloff in passive mode, your
cables are probably of a low enough capacitance design. I looked them
up and the website doesn't list the values. Whew, pretty pricey, though. I'd say you've invested enough in cables for awhile.My own preference is for floorstanders over monitors, but that is purely a matter of taste. For imaging and detail you can't beat a good monitor.
Maybe you should save your money for a new 50 inch plasma screen when
the price comes down a little lower (hopefully in a year or so). That's about where I am right now.
Wow, I would have pretty long way to go for a 50" plasma! Would be sweet though.Noticed you have a PS audio P300 in your system. Was considering that route as well. How do you like it? Was it a noticeable improvement? I'm currently using a Monster power conditioner.
It makes a noticeable improvement. I use it for front end components
only. The multiwave option is nice, but it can make transformers a little noisy. Also, if you use it for more than 60 watts or so you'll
need to keep the internal cooling fan connected (I unhooked mine). I
can't stand to hear the fan and feel hearing it in the background negates any improvement I get from the clean power.So I guess for me its a p60 not a p300.
I use it for CD player, preamp, and pre/pro.
.
instead of upgrading a component, you might want to look into adding one...digital room correction. Tact makes room correction devices which sell within your price range, Krell is building them into some of their pre amps. Blose is even using it and touting it as their great technological advantage...it's the wave of the future (pun intended).You seem pretty sold on B&W, but you might want to give the new full range Infinity's a listen (can't remember the model numbers) if you're looking at speakers. You could listen to full range speakers in your price range and then you wouldn't have to have a subwoofer to integrate. VMPS is highly touted on this forum and others as real bang for the buck stuff, you might want to investigate their speaker line as well.
...and decide why you're unhappy with the current system and what your future goals are (unless that goal is simply to spend more money.)
Are you running the GFP-750 passive or active? Going passive was a big improvement for me. You need short, low capacitance interconnects. I don't think the 9000 es would have any problem driving it, but Sony seems sort of stingy on specs regarding output
impedance. Less than 100 ohms would be great.Also, can the Marantz amps be run balanced? I can't remember. If they are a balanced design you could get a true balanced source and
even go passive, all-balanced. Talk about hearing a pin drop.
I'd have to disagree with some of the other posters regarding your
preamp. It is not a weak link, it's a fine preamp designed by
Nelson Pass and built by Adcom. It uses a single balanced gain stage,
has a balanced volume control that will also work well passive, and
has a home theater pass-thru option to boot. I'm not aware of any other preamp with this combination of features. I've gone through alot of equipment in the last several years, and right now my system sounds better to me than it ever has. Look at my inmate system and
you'll see it includes this preamp.
Good Luck on your journey.
Charles
else. I didn't see any mention as to how, or with what, your system is wired. Wires really matter. IMO, you really don't have bad equipment. I suspect that a few cable adjustments might make you quite satisfied, and save you a lot of money.
There is nothing wrong with anything you have, including your speakers, and little to be gained by upgrading incrementally, unless you would prefer a better speaker (in some objective sense and/or in combination with your room). If you like your speakers, relax and enjoy. If you think something is missing, go listen to some bigger speakers.
If so, getting rid of it probably does good to the music/movie playback.I used to have a Adcom pre/proc. ( forgot the model number, tho )
and what a revelation when I removed it. It was a noisy hazy unit.Since then, I've replaced it with EAD's Encore pre./proc. which is
lot more open than the previous Adcom albeit still not up to par
with stand-alone 2 channel preamp.I am beginning to think, tho, the part of the reason so many HT rig sound
somewhat flat compard to a dedicated two channel set up is most of
HT preamp/proc. in the market are too focused on features and short on sonics.Many suggest to get a processor with a pass-through and add a dedicated two
channel pre amp ( like tubed unit for instance ). But, for some reasons, even the bypass option seems to add an extra
noise.Whatever improvements you make for two channel, movie playback will benefit from them, too.
There are more info hidden in the sound track than I realised.
Adcom 750
it looks to be promising.
Check out this link: Chick Here I do have some nice things to say about Adcom: 1. My friend's 125 watt Adcom amp was the 1st amp that help me hear what a Martin Logan speaker could do. 2. I have had an Adcom 5503 3 channel amp that did the job for a year in my 5.1 system until I replaced it with an Aragon 8008X3 3 channel amp. Therefore Adcom amps are rather impressive for the money but their pre-amps are somewhat lacking in craftsmanship and fine detail. Then again I always like to have some tubes in a stereo system to warm up or naturalize the music and since I like the power and steadfastness of a SS amp, having a tubed pre-amp is the next best thing and Adcom doesn't make a tube pre-amp.
IO agree with D's response below. Figure out, by comparison with other systems, what you're after. Some people get upgraditis (especially after hanging out here for a while) and start swapping components with no real sense of what they're after. You have pretty good speakers, and a pretty fair digital source. Don't expect any jaw-dropping miraculous results unless you're really going to spend big. Once you cross the mid-fi threshold (as you already have) improvements typically come in small increments. Offhand, however, I'd say your pre-amp is the weakest link.
You got a great player with mono blocks and speakers. Sure you can spend big bucks and improve on those 3 items, but at what cost? Therefore your weak link is your pre-amp. Replacing it would be your most cost effected improvement. What about a tube pre-amp, Audio Research LS16 or a BAT would be nice :) JD3
Have you listened to this pre amp, or are you just making a general comment?
see above for link
Adcom stuff is mostly overrated, IMHO. Not crap, but there's better gear in the same price range (e.g. Creek). Still, as someone already pointed out, you need to have a clear idea of what you're trying to accomplish before you start upgrading. I would strongly suggest that you get a review/return privilage on anything you buy at this point!
In most cases preamps have very little influence on the sound as their distortions
are typically below 0.001% THD and the frequency response is flat
so the sonic influence of the preamp will be minimal. The speakers
have way more impact on the sound.
Having gone through many pre-amps and knowing several other audio people, the pre-amp does matter because of its ability to influence either warm or cool tonality. Yes I agree that a pre-amp is not the greatest factor as with an amp or a speaker, but a pre-amp can relax or tighten up the sound especially with tubes. The original person that wrote for advise already has a fine amp and speaker and the lowest item on his chain is the pre-amp.
I would check out different speakers in your listening room as
in typical cases loudspeakers and the acoustic speaker/room interactions have far
more impact on the sound than amplifiers or CD-players, at least as the latter have reasonably good specifications and little distortions
(below 0.01% THD) which seems to be the case in your setting.
You don't know what your talking about. Now sit down before you hurt yourself.
I gave at the office!
mivwine, whoever you are, I am not interested in learning your opinion
on my posts nor do I care for your "opinion".If you think I don't know what I am talking about then disprove my claim that loudspeakers have a bigger impact on the sound than
preamplifiers or accept it. This would be good style.
Oh, you can't do this ?
If you don't want opinions on your opinions, don't post them in a public forum!
I gave at the office!
I don't know who ro-s is or who else he might be, but just what did he say that you disagree with? You think well-designed and good performing cd players, preamps and amps make more of a difference than speakers and room interaction?
Can I ask what it is exactly that you're unhappy with as far as the sound? I'm finding way too many people out there that seem to feel the need to upgrade at certain intervals even though they don't know what they want or what the problem is. It's best to pinpoint the areas of concern (i.e lack of resolution, improve soundstage, frequency extension, etc) before any suggestions are worthwhile. So please let us know what sound you're after. Thanks.
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