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I bought a pair of B&W 602 and a pair of stands for them. The stands i bought have a hollow tube which they say can be filled with sand. Does this actually reduce the vibrations/etc that are transmited to the floor? Does it deaden the tones from the speaker? I just wanted some opinions before i went out and started filling these stands with sand....
Thanks
Follow Ups:
I've had the 602's in a previous life and used them to good effect with sand filled Atatacama stands. It's well worth doing.SG
drain the vibration off of the speaker cabinets as quickly and evenly as possible (without creating additional resonance peaks) and then disburse it (send it to the floor). I prefer Silica sand for this which should be available in dry sterile form at most lumber yards on the cheap. All sand it not created equally as it comes in different basic shapes. If you have springy wood floors, you might try not filling them (the stands) completely (if you want to go to the bother) and slowly keep adding sand to see how it effects the sound. If you have sturdy floors (plaster or cement) then I have found that my personal preference is to add more weight/mass and to just fill the stands up to the top. I have far too much time on my hands and have already experimented with various combo's (including all shot and also sand/shot mixtures) and prefer just the Silica sand alone. The speakers that I have used by Castle and Reynaud are not that much different than your 602's, I would think, and I have used both bolt together Anaconda and one piece Target HR stands.
You've taken the time to listen to your stands with sand, silica, shot, and sand/shot mixture? Quite an effort.Since you've taken the time, let me ask you for a recommendation. I currently have my stands filled with lead shot. I think that each stand alone without shot weighs in at about 15-20 pounds and the lead shot per stand adds another 75 pounds, so the end result is a stand that weighs about 90-95 pounds. I'm not unhappy with the way the stands sound, but they are difficult to move. I'm going to be moving them to a new house and will have to carry them up 3 flights of stairs, so I'm not looking forward to the activity.
If you were in a similar situation and knowing what you know now about how the different filllings affect sound, what would you do? Leave the lead in the stands and move them hoping you don't throw out your back? Or, emtpy the stands and refill them? (If I empty the lead I then have to figure out how to dispose of the lead.)
Thanks for any thoughts.
John: If you like the sound of your stands the way that they are setup and will be moving to a place with "like" floors, you may just want to leave them intact, wrap them in something (in order to protect the finish) and have someone help you move them. Removing the shot from my stands took days (due to the small opening) and I used tiny kitchen skewers to keep the material flowing. Removing the sand and shot mixture was even more difficult for some reason. I have plaster sub floors in the living room where I listen to the "fave" system and all lead shot had a "hard" sound to it that I did not care for, sand and shot sounded very weird and created peaks and valleys in the response not unlike that of placing cones under equipment, but there was no easy method of tuning it (as I did not have the energy or patience to try different ratios and placement of the two materials). I have a friend with cement slab floors and tile who uses all shot and it sounds very good in his particular setup and I feel that the right choice depends on the floor construction itself as well as the rest of the system and you personal taste. Generally it seems that very solid floors do well with massive (heavy) spiked stands and that less solid floors do better with more lightly filled stands (also bottom spiked). However there are certain speaker (cabinet) designs that will blow this theory all to hell, such as the Coincident models that allow a great deal of cabinet vibration in the design (this construction has a name, but I keep forgetting what it is). These are not my original thoughts, but are theories that I picked up from researching this subject both here and in the A'Gon forums and being off work and at home the past year and a half, decided to run through them in order to improve my setup (cheap tweaks that require quite a bit of time and patience). I had forgotten about the Kitty Litter fill (mentioned in this thread) and will probably try it next in the cheap Anaconda stands that we use in the spare bed/computer room (which has a plywood floor with carpet). I also use a Studio Tech equipment rack with Neuance shelving (which I have yet to fill). It is isolated in a hallway closet and receives very little air born vibration (so no ringing), but I need to experiment with "light" fills on it, though it sounds very good as is. I had the Studio Tech rack (which is a bolt together model with upturned spikes for each shelf) mig welded into a one piece frame by my auto mechanic (he did not even charge me). This is something that can also be done to cheaper bolt together speaker stands as well (depending on the metal used) by anyone who has access to a mig welder. I did not bother to repaint it as it is installed in a closet, but this would be the final touch for speaker stands receiving this treatment as the welding does muck up the finish. One piece racks and stands are generally much more expensive than bolt together models and the welding only takes 5 minutes or so and significantly improves the transfer of vibration.
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Thanks for the detailed response. You display the kind of thoughtfullness and tenacity to system problems that I wish I put toward mine.Looks like there are no simple answers to resonance issues. If I recall the hole in my stands is about an inch in diameter, so I'm thinking the shot should drain out relatively easily. However, I am moving the stands to a similar type floor. Since the outcome of differnet filling appears uncertain I think what I'll do, following your suggestion, is see if I can move the stands without killing myself.
It should not be too difficult with such a large opening, but then you will have the hassle of handling and dealing with the lead itself and I doubt that the stands themselves add that much weight. I used to move the lighter Anaconda stands quite a bit (toe them in for late night listening in the near field), but rarely do this to the heavy Target stands (even though they are only filled with Silica). Just be sure to remove the bottom spikes before transporting them and good luck with the move.
Empty them and fill them with Jonny Cat unscented kitty litter.
john, do think that 75# is too much to carry upstairs? seems to me not that bad. now, my fried H subwoofer at 150# and cedar chest size would be another story.
one at a time and maybe two people to carry if necessary, would reduce your mess quotient.
......regards.....tr
Actually the stands are closer to 95 pounds each. 95 pounds for me is getting a little heavy. Add in the additional facts that the stands are awkward to carry, they have a very nice finish that I would hate to scratch, that I'll have to lift them into and out of the truck or backseat of my car, and that I'll probably be moving them out of this new location in another year, and I have enough reasons to at least consider that changing the filling might be a good idea, especially if I could improve the sound of the stands in the process.
When I was young and dumb and full of ***, I worked at a swimming pool company and carried around liners weighing from 75 to 425 lbs. Today, I have arthritis in every joint in my body.Point? You never know when you do damage to yourself...I hurt myself quite often with 10 lb. boxes of Christmas wrap in the job I had before the pool job. Those boxes were probably 4'X6'X4' cubes...didn't weigh much at all, but hard to handle...and I'd hurt my back. Of course I didn't know at that time that I'd fractured my back as a kid playing basketball, broke off the one of the processes on my third lumbar (the doctor said it was a strain)...they didn't discover that until I was in my 30's!
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Hi Eagle,I have three Target stands that are made of hollow metal tubes. I filled two of the stands with lead shot. The one without the lead shot rings like a bell when struck with a metal wrench. The ones with the lead shot are dead, dead, dead. Did it make a diffence in the sound from my turntable which sits on top of the stand? No. But it's nice to know that my stands aren't ringing.
Hope this helps.
Mr Vinyl
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Filling the stands is certainly a good idea. It should dampen vibrations in the stand but not harm the sound from the speakers. I mixed lead-shot and sand for additional stability and dampening, and I believe that many others do the same. If you do use the combination you will find that the sand (and probably the shot) could take a while and a bit of stand-shaking -tapping to settle, much like cereal in a box. The sand fills in the gaps between the lead.I spent some time shaking my stands to make the filling settle, and found that it can take quite a while for it to settle fully. You will find that if you want to fill the stands it won't be a "tip it in and use them" procedure. IF you want to fill the stands to the brim, I suggest filling to about a third, shaking etc and using them for a day or two, repeating the exercise to two-thirds full, and them to the top after another few days. Even after that you may have to give them a top-up. You may find that the sound changes as you fill them.
I also found that after putting the speakers in place that more settling occurred as the vibrations from the speakers affected the contents.
BUT, it is most important to use clean, bug- and litter-free sand, which has no moisture in it. I gather that in the U.S. you can get specially-cleaned sand from toy-shops or similar. I wonder if the sand for swimming-pool filters may also be suitable. Also check for possible leak-holes so that you don't end up with little mounds of sand around the stands.
If you try it hopefully you will hear a cleaner sound, with firmer bass, better soundsage and less smearing.
Best regards,
Wordsmith
My sand was a little wet....It's sealed well, inside the stands and at the ends with plastic in addition to the natural seal from the stand itself. I figured what harm can it do? Maybe they rust my speaker stands in a few years?
yes, it does deaden vibration, and will also make the stands more stable as they'll be heavier. You can buy playsand and any Home Depot for about $2.50 a bag (one bag should be enough).
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