|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
Which electronic consumer company actually uses Teflon printed circuit board in the critical signal path ?
Follow Ups:
Dodson Audio DAC's use Teflon PCB's.
.
www.mutine.com
Impossible!! I have looked inside the Audiomat DUO and other products from Audiomat. Obviously, they are using conventional fibreglass material for the circuit board. Also, I doubt the Vecteur use the Teflon board in their gear either!! Those gears you have mentioned possess pretty good sounding. Therefore, please do not lie to the public, just because you are the distributor or dealer.Regards,
PPtriode
pushpulltriode wrote:Impossible!! I have looked inside the Audiomat DUO and other products from Audiomat. Obviously, they are using conventional fibreglass material for the circuit board. Also, I doubt the Vecteur use the Teflon board in their gear either!!
Contrary to what some might think, Teflon circuit boards don't look like a sheet of white plastic with traces on them. In fact they look much like common laminated fiberglass boards, mainly because they're largely made of fiberglass. Teflon boards are typically fiberglass boards with the fiberglass having been coated with Teflon. Some of the more expensive laminates will use thin sheets of Teflon between the fiberglass layers for slightly better performance.
So the products in question may well be using Teflon circuit boards.
se
Hi Steve,
The dealer who carries Audiomat told me that the unit is using fibreglass circuit board. Last year February, I made a phone call to Audiomat in France, and asked them several questions:-Do you offer point to point wiring version?
Their answer: If you ordered a high quantity of our amplifier, we can do that.
-So, what type of the board material for PCB you guys using?
Their answer: Glassfibre.
The Audiomat phone number is on their catalogue which was the dealer gave me.Have Fun!!
Regards,
PPtriodePS. I have used different type of Teflon such as basic type of Teflon (white colour), composite ceramic Teflon (ceramic filler Teflon), Etc for the terminal board for my mod and projects. Therefore, don't you think a Fiberglass coated with Teflon is considered as "Teflon" board?
pushpulltriode wrote:Their answer: Glassfibre.
Well there ya go. :)
And I didn't mean to imply that they were, only to point out that visually there's not much difference between say an FR-4 board and some of the fiberglass/Teflon laminates.
PS. I have used different type of Teflon such as basic type of Teflon (white colour), composite ceramic Teflon (ceramic filler Teflon), Etc for the terminal board for my mod and projects. Therefore, don't you think a Fiberglass coated with Teflon is considered as "Teflon" board?
Oh sure, it should be considered a Teflon board. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Again my only point was that you can't always easily tell the difference between some of the Teflon boards and plain glass epoxy boards by a casual visual inspection.
In other words, I was simply giving the company in question some benefit of doubt.
se
Hi se,
I get your point and thanks for your comments! However, I feel most of manufacturers out there must be honourable to tell the public what they are using. From my point of view, I consider the ceramic filler Teflon as the best circuit board material. I heard some of the high end audio also use this material as the "Teflon" circuit board, instead of glassfibre/teflon laminate stuff. However, those ceramic filler Teflon is not cheap at all. Actually they are pretty expensive!!Regards,
PPtriode
Not impossible! You looked at a 5 yr old piece of gear. Things change. Read the UHF mag review:http://www.mutine.com/pdfdocs/vecteurclubtentestuhf56.pdf
Hi,
Talk is cheap! The manufacturer (Audiomat) admitted that they use fibreglass for the circuit board material. Therefore, no need for further debate! Again! IMHO, the Audiomat stuff sounds pretty good compared to most tube gear out there. So, you do not have to promote your own products in a dishonourable way.
Take Care!!
Regards,
PPtriodePS. I always refer my friends audit the Audiomat gears, because it sounds really good. It has weaknesses just like everything out there.
SndsRtAud wrote:Not impossible! You looked at a 5 yr old piece of gear. Things change. Read the UHF mag review:
With all due repsect, a magazine review is hardly proof of anything. As often as not they just parrot the manufacturer's claims.
se
Pardon my acting as a net cop, but don't the "rules" state that industry members, dealers, etc. are required to register here and identify themselves? I think I know who you are but doubt everyone else does. And aren't you a dealer for these lines?
nt
..
Hi,
-Mark Levinson #26S
-David Berning TF-12
-Spectral DMC-20That's all I know!
Have Fun!!
Regards,
PPtriode
nt
Why would one use a teflon circuit board , teflon is not at all stiff , it bends , surely this is not good for PCB tracks , soldered joints etc?
What electrical benefits are there over fibregass etc?
Rodney Gold
A good way to look at this is to consider every component in an electronic system as an integrator. That is, they all have the ability to absorb and release energy to some degree. That includes the circuit board.These effects are measurable in a laboratory. Lots of papers have been published about this subject.
The rub is that some folks believe that these physical effects are not audible, while some folks believe they are. There seems to be little bipartisan coming together over the topic.
A good paper is available at the Analog Devices web site. Actually, there are lots of good papers over there, but this one by Doug Grant and Scott Wurcer directly addresses the topic.
Rod, we have experimented with circuit board material over the years. About 25 years ago, Tektronix published an article on problems with some of their circuit boards. They called it 'circuit hook', if I remember right. What it is: dielectric absorption of the circuit board material. Teflon is not easy to work with, and is very expensive. It is still the best material that we know of to use. I tended to scoff at its use several years ago, but no more! I like to win listening contests, and now Bob Crump and I use teflon as well.
Hi John,Can you recommend any manufacturers for sample lot prototype teflon PCBs?
Is it a proprietary specialty, or is it something a local PCB manufacturer might do.
TIA,
-Steve
Hi Rodney,
> > Why would one use a teflon circuit board , teflon is not at all stiff , it bends , surely this is not good for PCB tracks , soldered joints etc? < <Composite ceramic teflon does not have these problems.
> > What electrical benefits are there over fibregass etc? < <
If I am not making any mistake, the best dielectric is "air" and teflon is the second best.
Have Fun!!
Regards,
PPtriode
We use teflon as well as six nines oxygen free vacuum which is provided by Keith Herron's Swiss Vacuum Mines which is a much better dielectric than air.... :-)
Rodney, we use small teflon boards as it increases bandwidth and it is not hydroscopic as are fiberglass boards. Ten bolts for each 3.5" x 3.75" board stiffens things a bit for us. You might not have much of a problem with humidity being soaked up by fiberglass boards in South Africa as I imagine humidity is very low there.....A lot of the problem with protracted warm-up in some locales is merely baking the water out of the fiberglass boards....
Ah , thanks , I wondered what the reasons were .
Rodney Gold
....just my 2¢
» Mart £ «
Audio Asylum
where the Retentive & Obsessed are the Analysts
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: