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I'm wondering what to do about my SACD recordings. I now have an external DAC that I like, but I don't want to sacrifice the expanded resolution of the SACD. I have been playing the SACDs on my Oppo Bluray player, with PCM output through the HDMI cable to a Monoprice HDMI audio converter, and then digital coax from the Monoprice box to my Schiit DAC. I *think* this works. Is there a better way?
I'm frustrated that none of the SACD players in my price range output the full resolution on coax or optical. And my DAC and Audio Research Line Stage do not accept HDMI.
Last week, I saw a Cambridge Audio transport that looks really nice. But it doesn't read SACDs. I'd rather just play discs on that thing and let it feed the DAC because it seems a simpler, cleaner solution. Would that be a big step down in quality for the SACDs?
Thanks!
-David
Follow Ups:
Apologies if this has already been posted.
If you have an Oppo 103, the VanityHD boards will let you output 5.1 DSD over 3 separate coaxial lines, to 3 DSD capable stereo DACs.
There are a number of options though, not all include this capability so be sure to check with your distributor that your choice has this.
Best,
Erik
I went with a HDMI de-embedder from my Oppo mostly to get hi-rez PCM from DVD-As. I didn't like the 24/88 conversion with SACDs as well as going straight out of the Oppo. I have a 83se, with the upgraded analog outputs.
I do have a separate CD transport that does sound slightly better than the Oppo as a transport, but it could be the difference between the two digital coax cables that I am using. One of these days I will switch them and see.
If your dac can't decode DSD or DOP, then you will need a SACD player if you want to play SACDs, no way around it. If your dac decoded DSD, then if you have the right model Oppo, ripping them to your computer would be the way to go.
If budget isn't a concern PS Audio is beta testing a universal transport that will output DSD to either of their Directstream dacs through a HDMI cable. But the cable is not outputting a regular HDMI signal, it is using the cable to output I2S. Only a dac that has the handshake can receive DSD. And I don't think any players output DSD through coax or optical.
Why not use your Oppo as the transport for CDs. If you need a Blu-ray player for the TV room, there are many inexpensive players that are fine for movies.
Thanks for the ideas, Jeff. So the question is whether the Oppo BDP-93 is a better transport than the Cambridge Audio CXC for regular CDs. Is that a contentious issue? Or is there a general consensus about such things?
Thanks!
While neither contentious, or settled, that makes this just one item with various solutions, and opinions.
Some believe all CDs should be ripped to a hard drive. I personally think if that hard drive is part of a dedicated music player then ripping with multiple backups is the way to go. But still learning about computer audio, and using a laptop designed for general use, I am maintaining 4 main sources, analog [vinyl], radio [FM & satellite], PC digital, and digital spinners.
For you I would use the Oppo as your transport for CDs, if your only other option is the Cambridge. Both my Oppo and my transport are getting quite old. The PS Audio Lambda was the best transport I had ever heard when I got it. It had replaced a Cal Delta that was a very good transport, that at $825 sold for half what the Lambda sold for.
Well the Lambda and Oppo 83se used as a transport are very close. I was switching the shelves that the Lambda and the Oppo were set on, yesterday. I had changed the coax cable when I moved them. So I was now using the AQ Cinnamon on the Lambda. I actually prefered the Oppo, it was that close, the coax cable was the deciding factor. So the Oppo is a decent transport, use it with a really good cable and relax knowing you would have to pay about 4-8 times as much as the Cambridge.
As I mentioned PS Audio is beta testing a new transport that will output DSD to it's Directstream dacs. The new transport will retail for $6000 and the dacs either for $3900 or $6000-6800.
I just worked out a deal on one their current transports, which retails for 8 times as much as the Cambridge. I have wanted one for years and I knew I could never afford the DMP, so I moved up to a PWT.
What I am saying is that you will have spend a lot more than $500 to get a better transport than the one in the Oppo.
Jeff Starr (A) wrote:
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For you I would use the Oppo as your transport for CDs, if your only other option is the Cambridge.
What I am saying is that you will have spend a lot more than $500 to get a better transport than the one in the Oppo.
-----
Wow -- I didn't expect that. I was sure the dedicated transport (Cambridge Audio CXC) would beat the Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player.
I'm still tempted to put the BDP-93 downstairs with the TV, because it's a really good upsampling player for DVD and Blu-ray. I do have another Oppo, a DVD-981, that I could use as a transport. I'm not sure it's in the same league as the BDP-93, though, or the Cambridge transport.
Unless I've missed something, the poster you have responded to has not heard the Cambridge.
Sorry for the confusion. I am the original poster. You are correct that I have not heard the Cambridge. I own the Oppo units (BDP-93 and DV-981), but I don't have any basis of comparison with the Cambridge. The only comparison I have is with my old NAD C541i, which didn't sound as good to me.
I heard some people saying that the Cambridge is better than any blu-ray player... something about being optimized for playing CDs. They use the term "single-speed" in their ad copy, which confused me, because I thought the disc speed actually changed as the laser was reading through the disc.
On the other hand, I've other comments (some in this thread) praising the Oppo players. I could just use my blu-ray player. The disadvantages are that it's hard to play with the settings without taking it downstairs and plugging in the TV, and then unplugging it and bringing it back to my audio system. And it's not as quick jumping between tracks or fast-forwarding as my old NAD CD player was. But it would check the boxes for CD digital output, as well as analog output from SACD, using its pretty good (I think) built-in DAC.
Thanks,
David
Why not get a small monitor that has a HDMI input. You should be able to find something between 9"-15" for around a hundred dollars new. Check out Overstock, find one that runs off a wallwart, and hook it up to your Oppo, either one.
Unplugging it every time you want to use it with a DVD-A or SACD, is got to be a pain. A simple little monitor would solve that.
I haven't heard the Cambridge and if you can borrow one, give it a listen, but I have had enough experience with transports, and my Oppo to say that I would be very surprised if it was better than using the Oppo for a CD transport. I think you would have to spend a couple thousand to get any real gains.
But I would also encourage you to listen yourself, if you can return the Cambridge.
Just curious. How does your Oppo compare as a CD transport with your PS Audio? Chap over in another forum (Pink Fish Media)who bought a CXC "on a whim" claims it is almost indistinguishable from his PS Audio.
As I said my Oppo is very close to the PS Audio Lambda a transport that is over 20 years old. A transport that sold for $1895 in 1993.
So, which PS Audio transport is he comparing it to?
The current model the PerfectWave Memory Player Transport [PWT]retails for $4k.
I have found transports to have differences in sound that are easier to hear than similarly priced dacs.
Maybe the Cambridge is a real steal, I haven't heard it, but the PWT is much better than the Oppo. The PWT does a better job of separating instruments and vocals. Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs" is highly compressed and it can be hard to hear the vocals. At least with my Oppo or Lambda, the PWT does a much better job of separating all the clutter.
Remember there are lots of variables when making these comparisons. the dac used, the cables used, isolation, and every other component in the system that follows the dac.
He doesn't specify exactly which model but says it's the one before the current one. I do take the comparison with a grain of salt but in my system the CXC is such an improvement over all the other midfi transports I've used, Rotel, Nad, Audiolab etc. that I do think it's possible it's a real bargain.
I was at a friend's today and he had a Cambridge Blu-ray player just sitting on a shelf. I asked him what he knew about the transport. He said he has heard good things about it.
I think he might be willing to sell the Blu-ray, said it would make a transport.
He has a AR CD9 in his main system, and is using a Bel Canto that is being replaced with a PS Audio DMP, going into a Directstream in his bedroom system.
If I was the OP, I would try the Cambridge with a 30 day return, and get a small monitor for his Oppo. That is silly unplugging it, and taking it to a TV.
Welcome! David
I would seek out a better SACD player than the Oppo.
When you output via HDMI, does that not effectively bypass the internal sound circuitry of the player and you wind up hearing the DAC etc in your amp/receiver?
Does this mean that there is no point in spending big bucks on a player, or does it mean you should never use HDMI, but rely on analogue output unless you have a high end external DAC?
And for SACD, it sounds like you MUST go analogue out to hear them, again unless you have a highpriced DAC capable of decoding them
Edits: 10/25/16
To your specific question, the answer I think is no. I use the Cambridge CXC, the transport I think you are referring to, and the step up in sq over any other transport, physical or file, I've ever used is so great I think it's your best solution. But then again I've never heard SACD so what do I know!
I suspect that you might get equally good results just using the analog outputs of the Oppo into your AR linestage as compared with the complex chain through the Monoprice box. Have you tried that?
Thanks everyone. And thanks, Kal. Yes, I did sometimes use the analog output of the Oppo. Come to think of it, it did sound really good. Playing devil's advocate, the CD layer on those discs is probably great, and the Oppo's down-rez digital output is probably also great sounding. I'm not sure what I was getting.
The complexity was starting to annoy me. The Oppo's settings required a connected TV, and the Monoprice had delayed action on its controls for channel, stereo/multi-channel, and mute--sometimes leading to a few minutes of frustration when things didn't work.
But are you suggesting that the more convoluted chain could actually sound worse? Why? Would you suspect more likelihood of jitter?
So I could try: (a) analog RCA directly to the preamp -- but I think the Schiit DAC is better; (b) digital coax at CD resolution into external DAC; (c) PCM through HDMI to Monoprice / coax to external DAC.
I'm tempted to just buy the Cambridge transport and connect it to my Schiit DAC, which is simple. Actually, the simplest thing would be to not touch anything, but I just moved and realized that I wanted my good audio system upstairs in the big room, even though the tv is downstairs. So I'm going through some re-org and re-thinking.
-David
1. I have no experience with the Monoprice box.
2. If you want SACD, the transport is out.
3. You have to decide for yourself.
Edits: 10/29/16
.
More snark that adds nothing to the thread. I wasn't going to post but you changed your email preference.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Now go back to your little hospital crib and suck your thumb for a while, OK?Stop stalking me here, ignore my posts, stop trying to send your spasmodic email rants my way, and everything will be OK.
It is you that has consistently shown everyone that you can turn into a raving, foul-mouthed lunatic if/when you disagree with anyone, or any thing. Your crazy mood swings are well documented here. One minute you're "Mr. Kind and Helpful", the next minute you're a rabid dog...
So, I hope you'll get your head in order soon. But until then, please keep away from me and mine.
Edits: 10/26/16
If you play the SACD discs on a non-SACD spinner then, if the discs are hybrids ( most are), you will be playing the redbook layer. So this is effectively the same as playing a CD. If you believe that CDs are inferior to SACDS then this is the answer to your question. If not then you have no worries.
Part of the specification for SACD players as defined by the original patent holders, Sony and Philips, is that no output of the DSD stream is permissable. Hence the only transports able to output the stream did so (after agreement with Sony) as an encrypted version which can only be decoded by that manufacturer's DACs.
It is possible to rip the DSD content from the SACD and store it as a computer file to be replayed via a DSD DAC. It can be done ( I understand) using certain Oppo players plus some free software. So you may already have the player needed. However I don't think that any of the Schiit DACS have DSD capabilty as they don't use Delta Sigma converters and in any case you may not wish to become involved with computer audio.
As for your exisitng setup there are conflicting views as to whether or not conversion of DSD to high rate PCM is optimal. Certainly the material on most SACDS has been through some kind of DSD/PCM/DSD conversion process in order to allow for editing. As for on the fly conversion for replay I suspect that the success of it depends upon the algorithms chosen for the process.
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