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In Reply to: RE: Thanks for responding.... posted by Sordidman on August 22, 2016 at 16:40:56
No problem. There's no reason for anyone to get uppity.
But, referring to John's overall design, and also his board as "carrier" board...
I find that to be an elegant and practical solution using a "carrier board". Modular design allows for either to be upgraded separately over time as necessary.
...as well the ARM as the processor board as "the system."
I think that is an accurate characterization of a SolidRun iMX6 SOM since it contains a memory subsystem, power management subsystem along with networking and system interconnectivity.
The processor chip is not what the layperson would "call" a computer, and doesn't meet the definition.
No disagreement there. An A9 Cortex processor alone is the size of a microSD card or a fingernail - quite the contrast to the iMX6 system linked above. Do you notice the physical difference?
and the use of separate galvanically isolated components, and integration of the some of the Regen tech in the USB stage
All found on his proprietary carrier board separate from the computer system proper. Once again, I think that is a great application of practical packaging.
I don't know what you mean about "reinvent the wheel"
There was no need for John to devise his own computer system consisting of processor, memory, local storage and I/O ports. The SolidRun system is readily available at low cost.
What he did is leverage existing technology - a general purpose computer system - and add what is truly the ASIC part - application specific parts along with chosen OS parameters.
Follow Ups:
Everyone that i work with would call the ARM a processing board.
One would still need an input device & an output device to meet the definition. Processing files may be the act of computing. The heart of the system is not the whole system. A calculator is more of a computer according to the dictionary.
I can see SolidRun's marketing team referring to the board as a system, as it has more than just a processor. But without the rest of the components that make up a mainboard, even a razberri Pi mainboard: it takes more to make it a complete computer as defined in dict.
Cheers
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
One would still need an input device & an output device to meet the definition.
Those are provided by the wealth of I/O ports supported by the board.
Do tell use what input and output devices were found on ENIAC?
Would you consider the venerable IBM 370 a "general purpose computer"? If so, tell us what input and output devices were standard with it? I'm not talking about external 3780 boards used to communicate with the block mode terminals. Nor or any specific output devices. At the expense of confusing the issue with facts, they were numerous.
Thanks,
"Those are provided by the wealth of I/O ports supported by the board."
Exactly. So the statement that you just agreed to is the same as the dictionary's: meaning that the board in & of itself is not a computer until you add on the I/O ports supported by the board....
Not sure if you were serious about the ENIAC.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
The fact that you don't answer any of my questions is quite telling. You don't get it.
You keep talking about the "dictionary definition" and yet you've never referenced it. Quote your source!
Do (attempt to) answer any of my many questions. Are they beyond your level of comprehension? Do you understand the difference between an A9 Cortex chip and a SolidRun iMX6? Ever heard of ENIAC? Ever heard of IBM System/370? It would seem not.
In any event, it is apparent to all that you are absolutely clueless as to the history of computer technology and its terminology.
I posted the dictionary definition above. Here it is again.
noun
"a programmable electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations. Mainframes, desktop and laptop computers, tablets, and smartphones are some of the different types of computers. ""You agreed to this, (the above isn't my definition) and you said "supported I/O Devices" are necessary to make the ARM Processor & RAM board be a computer.
When one buys the board, they buy it without any I/O devices.I am happy to answer your question, - but I don't see why the history of tech, or computing has to do with meeting the criteria of how the dictionary defines the device. The ARM processor board comes with no I/O devices.
The ELIAC was a computer that calculated Artillery firing tables. I honestly don't know how the results were displayed, I always assumed that the computer used some sort of electromechanical solenoid that tapped out numbers that a person actually wrote down, or was set to "print" via some sort of teletype. The input would be the person throwing the switches/or numbers.
Calculators...
In any case, no history matters one fig on the basis of whether or not a device is, or is not a computer. A definition is a description of what a thing is to the exclusion of all other things.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 08/22/16
Your overly pedantic and childish rant has entered the absurd.
I posted the dictionary definition above...
And you can find many more truer definitions when you Google the term. Begin with what you find at the top of the page. Then go here , here , here , here and here . Note the absence of the word "display" in all of those. Why is that? For starters, computers were computers for decades before anything was "diplayed". Video display terminals (VDT) weren't introduced until the late 1960s.
I honestly don't know how the results were displayed
Obviously, because they were not. They were sent to an external printer. Was the ENIAC (with an "N" for numeric) a computer without an attached printer?
Of course it was.
Today, modern data centers use large numbers of virtualized blade servers. The software development firm where I work uses that same approach. If you were to enter the equipment room, would you find a row of monitors and keyboards? No. Our IT staff accesses them remotely using RDP applications. Are these virtualized servers computers even if they don't display anything?
Of course they are.
The SolidRun iMX6 computer found in a µRendu uses the same approach as modern blade servers. Is that computer a computer?
Of course it is.
Presumably, you already have seen it's output:
In any case, no history matters one fig on the basis of whether or not a device is, or is not a computer.
Understanding the past is only required when you attempt to attach an artificial constraint that didn't even exist when computers were introduced.
The print out is what is meant as "display" in the definition. Anything that shows the results of the act of the computing.. Of course it means remote viewing on another computer etc..That is the beauty of the definition. The definition that I posted is great. Again, some of the BEST definitions are the simplest. But more importantly it is the "top of the page" definition that is found in dictionaries, and it is the "common" usage of the term. Is there a different standard for computers than other definitions? Would a more strident definition cover certain calculators, & other computing devices?
Sure, the ENIAC is a "type" of computer like the calculator is another type, and the Razberri pie is another type. In the ENIAC, there was an input and an output, The "display" can be a sequence of flashing lights, a solenoid Morse code clicker, a printer...
The word "display" has nothing to do with video monitors. It means "visibly/seeing the results" of the process of "computing."
The "better" definition of a chair doesn't require 4 legs as part of it. That would eliminate all those chairs that have one pedestal type leg.
I understand that you got frustrated. I would be grateful if you didn't let that turn into insults or an insulting tone. As stated in any definition, any particular computer can only be an EXAMPLE in the definition. A typewriter is NOT a computer, because it does not perform "mathematical or logical programmed operations." Even though it does have an input and an output.
This ARM board is not yet a computer, (it only has potential). It becomes a computer when you add "one of the many supported" I/O devices, - like John's board.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 08/23/16
But more importantly it is the "top of the page" definition that is found in dictionaries...
Not at the top of my page nor not with my unabridged Webster. :)
Of course it means remote viewing on another computer etc..
What then is this Sherlock?
I'll be happy to answer if you quit deleting your posts
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Of course you can essentially build your own Bryston Pi by buying your own Raspberry Pi board, pick up a HiFiBerry DAC Pi HAT, micro SD card and power supply all for little under one hundred bucks. Then flash your micro SD card with the latest PiCorePlayer 3.0 and boom you've got your very own Bryston Pi. If want to get really fancy you can also add a Pi Touchscreen.
Hiya,
Yep. All cool stuff. The philosophy underneath a lot of this stuff is stripping away the unneeded components, - and therefore noisy, or even components that suck up resources. The results to do this is clearly demonstrable. I have to wait a while, but I will be getting a SonicOrbiter, (based on QUBOX), to compare to the microRendu.
Great times that one can now break down what used to be a large, traditional mainboard, (with a separate RAM/Processor board), and just add in as many or few other components that you want/need.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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