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We have PCM to DSD via software like HIFI player and we have some PCM to DSD upsampling DACS like from PS Audio so how come no manufacturer has introduced a stand alone ( affordable) cd player that JUST plays cds but upsamples them from 16 bit PCM to DSD from the DAC inside the player? Seems to me would be a great way to keep the cd player alive going forward
Follow Ups:
Hi,
Any CD-Player with a Delta Sigma DAC (read AKM, Cirrus Logic, NPC, some Philips Chipsets, many Sony Chipsets and others) since the late 1980's to today converts PCM to DSD, most often to DSD128 for more recent Delta Sigma DAC Chipsets, some even do DSD256.
More advanced DAC's (e.g. latest Burr Brown & ESS) use multibit delta-sigma hybrids (with differing implementations) which provide a further advance over single speed DSD.
Now the precise modulators and filters used will differ between different chipsets and different software etc. and so - they will sound different.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Thanks! for sharing- T.
How come nobody else here seems to know about this stuff?
Hi,
DSD was developed in part because in the 90's Delta Sigma ADC's (which output "DSD" naturally) and Delta Sigma DAC's (which need a "DSD" input) became common.
With CD the ADC had it's DSD output converted to PCM and the DAC received PCM and had to internally convert to DSD. So you had:
ADC-DS(S) -> Conversion to PCM -> CD -> Conversion to DS(D) -> DAC-DS(D)
You may find this little sidebar to an interview illuminating:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-thorsten-loesch-amrifi-audiostream-addendum-pcm-vs-dsd
As to "Why no-one knows?"...
Well, those "PCM to DSD" converting DAC Chips did not have a big advertisment "Converts PCM to DSD", but instead were called "Mash" (pronounce Mush) by Technics, or "Bitstream" (pronounce Bitscream) by Philips, Pulseflow (pronounce Pulsesslow) by Sony and so on...
So while they actually did "PCM -> 2 -> DSD" in hardware, someone forgot to mention the fact (perhaps because DSD was still a decade away... Hehehe.
:-P
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
I believe that the Gamut CD3 does this (upsampling to 3.8Mhz) from my understanding.
Used price has been $2.5-3K.Very nice stand-alone CD player.
Tom:cat
Nt
The bigger question is, how many new stand-alone audio only optical disc players do you see being released? Almost none, just a few at very high prices. The problem isn't so much a lack of PCM to DSD support as it is a lack of optical disc audio playback support in general. Video disc players would seem a likely place for PCM to DSD conversion support, except that the video playback focused market is none too concerned about DSD audio. DSD is only an interest within the audiophile niche market.
_
Ken Newton
Edits: 08/06/16
Good query- dusted.
I am awaiting such a spinner myself.
No 1 bit chips anymore, only multibit.
The Emm Labs player does DSD upsampling, not affordable though.
Rumor has is that the forthcoming Marantz SA10 will do this. But it won't be inexpensive either,
probably around $7,500.
Mind you it depends what you mean by affordable. As stand alone players they have always been at the least expensive level for dCS :-)
Ok -3k or less -puts it in Rega Saturn territory
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