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Is it worth spending the money to buy a DAC to use with my Tivo? It only has a Toslink output, and I would need to run it about 30 feet. Would a Rega or Eastern Electric DAC be overkill?
Thanks for all opinions!
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on my DishNetwork box, I have an audio setup menu in which I tick PCM only. Unfortunately, it would appear this than defaults to 32khz at some unknown, but probably mp3-160 or so level of quality.
OK for TV and non-critical but clearly inferior to ALAC from the confuser thru the same DAC.
For other persons input on this, see my thread on DACMagic plus........I had asked a related question.
The audio menu of TIVO may ALSO include a nighttime setting which levels the volume.....a general no-no or even some other tricks.
Too much is never enough
I am guessing into the dark, but it is a common problem when video sources need to be decoded with a surround DAc, and a two channel dac will just not work at all.
Just mentioning it.
IF the TIVO WILL work with a two channel Dac then forget what i wrote.
I never considered that--I will have to check it out.
Yes, Elizabeth is correct on that. If the Tivo does not pass PCM, then a two channel Dac is useless. However, the way around that would be to use the digital output from your flat screen to the external Dac. Most recent TV's will convert to a PCM signal and then you will have a DAC hooked up for any sources you feed your TV going into your Hi-Fi system.
I did a little grubbing through the seemingly endless TiVo website, wherein it appears that the box is adjustable in much the same way disc players are. TiVo says "Adjusting audio settings from 'Dolby Digital' to 'Dolby Digital to PCM.: This setting is accessible by navigating from TiVo Central > Messages & Settings > Settings > Audio > Dolby Digital, then selecting 'Dolby Digital to PCM." YMMV based on the exact TiVo model you own so check it out.
If all else fails there is one DD DAC I'm aware of. Its a weird $100 thing by Gefen, see link. Probably as well to just use the analog outputs from the box.
TiVo’s website says: “TiVo Series 2 and Series 2 DT boxes support Dolby Pro-Logic and Dolby Surround. TiVo Series3 and Premiere boxes support Dolby Digital 5.1. Currently, TiVo does not support 7.1 Dolby Digital surround sound.” Surfing websites of some broadcast TV networks and the ATSC it seems DD 5.1 is the best available, generally.
Dolby Digital audio (also known as AC-3) is the same as audio on ordinary DVDs. DD is a lossy CODEC generally limited to 448 Kbps. Note, that’s still only about 1/3 the bitrate of a CD. DD typically compresses a 5.1 channel surround track typically to 384 - 448 Kbps. DD can be transmitted optimally via S/PDIF.
Lossy CODEC’s have characteristic sound determined by the CODECs’ software creators. Suffice it to say a large amount of compression takes place- early testing showed “perfect transparency” only at 1.5 Mbps (the current standard is <1/3 that!), and the test methods were criticized at the time. In the real world, I think it yields pretty decent playback, sounding about as nice as CDs in my rig but it's not comparable to hi-res digital.
Also don’t be hasty to write off Toslink optical cable- it’s not all bad. It’s not a slam-dunk that it has more jitter under all circumstances and optical has many advocates. See review below (apologies for the 6-moons jive); the upshot comparing Toslink to coax is: “The differences that do exist don't proclaim one or the other the victor based on clear superiority. They simply operate inside system compatibility effects and those of personal preferences.”
To your original question, I'd say it is worth a decent DAC but don't go overboard. Maybe check out a $200 Emotiva? I say this based on reviews and their evident excellent performance/cost.
Thanks! That was the information that I needed.
Lossy CODECs are not transparent. Neither are the higher rate PCM signals compared with the original analog feed, at least not anywhere near bit rates of 1.5 Mbps. However, if one defines "transparency" in terms of reproducing an already degraded signal, then the correct figure should be based on lossless compression, which compresses almost all audio streams by at least 40%. One can listen to Czech Radio in two channel 16 bit audio at 48 kHz and the data rate of the VBR FLAC encoded stream seldom goes above 900 kbps, even momentarily.
Thus the information loss for AC-3 is really only about 50%, not the 67% you suggest. I view this as an argument against using this compression, since this means there is really no big gain to be had by degrading the quality of audio. It is interesting to know that one of the inventors of peceptual coding does not use it personally.
Lossy compression may make sense for voice and background music. For an audiophile it is death.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I completely agree with the point that since there is already a lot of compression applied by lossy CODECs to the digital output from a TiVo, it makes no sense in using a high-end DAC for TiVo sound exclusively. Nonetheless, if one wanted to watch TV shows in the room with his hi-fi and get the best possible sound from a gizmo like a TiVo (which I think was the thrust of the OP) it seems worth a $200 or so DAC, versus taking analog out of the TiVo box. The OP must decide the results for himself in the end anyway.
As to it being 'death' I think that's a little severe a penalty! DD 5.1 sounds "pretty good" - by that I mean it is not badly fatiguing for a period of listening the length of a concert or opera. DD has some sonic crud going on, yes, but I'd estimate 3,900 of my 4,000 LPs have some crud that is as bad, in some way.
On the whole, the designers of the world's lossy CODECs should be staked to anthills and Hall & Oates' MP3s played at high volumes from iPods until they beg forgiveness. You can't get away from them today, it seems. Movies, internet radio, TV, Netflix, your kids and friends, etc. will slip lossy CODEC program into your home uninvited, as it were.
You are going to be getting some Audiophile quality music from those Dac's, so you might want to feed it Audiophile quality material and connect it to Audiophile quality gear.
Just my opinion.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
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