Posted on SoundStage:Posted By: Ole L. Christensen
Saturday, 18 March 2000, at 4:00 p.m. In Response To: Re: Is SACD going to happen? (Marc Mickelson)
I have seen the new low price SONY SACD player at the Copenhagen HiFi Show. Release due in June, less than USD 1000. This will bring SACD within many peoples budget.
DVD Audio has a major problem, because the disc cannot play on CD player or DVD players!
DVD Audio has MLP as part of the format, and current DVD players do not have MLP.
So even if you had a collection of DVD Audio disc, you could not play them in your car, or take them to a friends house to play them.
The double layer SACD discs can play on all CD players and DVD players. Even my JVC boombox does it fine.
So I think SACD is a safe bet.
Ole L. Christensen
Gamut Audio
Follow Ups:
- Glitch in the Matrix Bernard 10:36:40 03/21/00
(2)
hmmm...deja vu! I think I've read this somewhere on this site before. But really now. Of the two formats let me state that I like SACD much much better than DVD-A. It's sad but if anything, DVD-A will be the format of the future. It offers more to Joe 6-pack who is the one who will decide what we "audiophiles" will get as the new digital medium. The whole thing about being able to play SACD's in cars and a JVC boombox is pointless. Who the hell cares if an SACD can be played on a boombox. Its akin to playing a DVD on a 70's vintage Black and White TV. In Japan it is not uncommon to see cars being sold new with DVD-drives built-in. You've got to know that EVERYTHING will converge to DVD. What makes DVD-AV a winner is the fact that it is an AV(audio visual)format as Tranney implied. In any case we "audiophiles" should embrace either format to avoid mp3 at all costs. Regards,
Bernard
- wrong movie -> Net Mart 12:11:07 03/21/00
(1)
You know it just occurred to me that the "Net" may be able to sustain both formats. By that I mean, through low overhead virtual stores direct marketting just may be able to support a low demand specialty items. The only thing standing in the way is can large corporations think small enough for this to happen. Again, by this I mean, would they be able to see past the plummetting sales to sell the ability to manufacture SACDs to small niche` industries?
- Re: wrong movie -> Net Bernard 15:10:15 03/21/00
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Optimistically(spelling?) speaking, I suppose all digital music formats can co-exsist but hrrmmmm, I dunno man. With mp3 picking up speed and DVD-A face down in a pile of copyright protection codes, who what will become of SACD at this point? I'll watch from afar on how well the $1000 SACD machine sells. If Sony wants it can make SACD a success but it will be costly to them. I'll buy lotso cds until something better is here to stay; sega taught me that lesson, Saturn, Dreamcast, bought em' both and all I can say is yack. Like they say in Japan, we'll know everything now in about a year. Regards,
Bernard
- It's doomed for sure, except for folks like us> Tranny 08:52:59 03/21/00
(8)
SACD is not going to be a mass market product. There is no reason for the general public to buy this format. In the face of MP3 audio replacing CD sales at Tower, any aspirations of financial success for SACD are doomed IMHO. You know, the general public's got a good point which I'd tend to agree with-
After spending so much money the past two years on making DVD the success it is, why the hell is there a format war today. Sony and Phillips butchered their futures with high rez audio by jumping the gun on compact video.
It's too bad, I'm pissed about my obsolete DVD player as well. The friggin thing is a year and a half old and needs to be replaced already.
As far as SACD players are concerned, they won't play DVD video. This alone guarantees the failure of the format.
SACD will be the next Mobile Fidelity, very expensive software, not many buyers.
Tranny
- Physical MP3 media TMT 04:22:29 03/23/00
(0)
> > In the face of MP3 audio replacing CD sales at Tower < < Is the above currently happening? I'm a little out of it. What kind of media? Are they setting up download stations or something? What's the use of actually going to a physical store to pick up MP3??
- you lost me Mart 10:02:35 03/21/00
(6)
"Sony and Phillips butchered their futures with high rez audio by jumping the gun on compact video." are you refering to DTS or DIVX?
"It's too bad, I'm pissed about my obsolete DVD player as well. The friggin thing is a year and a half old and needs to be replaced already."
are you refering to being able to accommodate the DVD-As?
- Why the US market differs from the Japanese market> Tranny 15:07:21 03/21/00
(5)
In Reply to: you lost me posted by Mart on March 21, 2000 at 10:02:35:
I was referring to Sony's seemingly intentional distribution of mass numbers of DVD players which will not accommodate either DVD-A or SACD. Why would Sony do this? To sell more players to everyone who have already purchased DVD only machines in the past two years. Imagine, going out to buy a new DVD player in order to play both DVD-A's and DVD movies. This is happening less than 2 years after selling us our supposedly new technology machines.
DIVX or DTS are not part of my point. Actually, most regular DVD gear includes DTS now.
It would have been easy to include DVD-A compatibility with the older players, IMHO. As a long term employee of a Japanese Company myself, I'm very aware of the lack of understanding Japanese Manufacturers have about the US market. US buyers don't like to buy things twice in a short period generally speaking of course, whereas Japanese consumers love to grab any new tech. It's a bigger problem than one would realize. Instead, it's always a race to see who can put something to market first. Thus the first generation of DVD players are non-compatible with two new major format introductions.
Later,
Tranny
- Why the US market differs from the Japanese market Joven 18:14:33 03/21/00
(4)
Sony didn't include DVD-A because they're not part of that format. However, there is multi-channel SACD. The companys didn't include it to to existing technology (DVD players) because there's still problems and want to introduce it as a new technology rather than an upgrade, which what it really is.
I think many Japanese companys understand the American market. The have research/marketing firms from the main markets to aid them. New technologies are going to pushed regardless of what the general market needs or does not need...
Joven
- Tech at a fast pace> Tranny 09:50:19 03/22/00
(3)
IMHO, DVD-A and SACD were ready long ago. The technology war that ensued between the two formats was the reason for the delay. Believe me, when the DVD blueprints were being sent to the factory, SACD and DVD-A were also ready to go. Sony chose SACD and the DSD technology because of the superior performance compared to DVD-A. Sony made no effort to incorporate this 24 bit sound format with their existing 24 bit DVD medium. That's fine with me but it is a sure fire way to fail in the marketing of this excellent audio format.
Here's the truth, SACD could have been a widely accepted new format if there was at least the option to keep it in the same box as the consumer's new DVD player. The fact that it is not means that only the audiophile elite will buy these players, instead of the millions who would have owned it instead. Sony is a feirce technology company which insists on exclusive products. That's why SADC vs. DVD-A exists in the first place.
Finally, if the format hangs on long enough( a few years ) with enough support, Sony will offer the feature in future DVD type players(just a prediction from me).
Hey, I'd love a SACD player, but I'll wait for the format to either die or bloom before I purchase.
Tranny
Tranny
- tech: Fast and slow Joven 18:53:33 03/22/00
(0)
You're right that there's always new products/technology already developed or in the process of being developed or created...but they're many factors involved with the release of new products/technology... There's a mulitude of ways to get SACD noticed but "widely accepted" is another thing. You can add SACD icon to everything and flood the market but doesn't mean it will be used. It's the same for DTS as many recievers and DVD players have the capability, the cost of the DTS disk is keeping buyers away from the DTS. The SACD format is still in it's infancy, and many people are waiting and wanting it to be similiar with the DVD format explosion...it's still too early...but Sony has scenarios in what directions it may lead to...
I too want a SACD player, actually a SACD changer... =)
that's a long ways off still...Joven
- Re: The business of business... Marcus of Markdom 12:57:38 03/22/00
(1)
The reason Sony & Phillips released SACD is because they own the copyright/patent/royalties to CD and had that revenue stream threatened if CD went away. While DVD was a video format, fine. SACD is a play to continue that revenue stream, which if you think about it, has to be HUGE. (# players * royalty + # discs * royalty + reissues of discs, etc.)
Sony could give a rat's a** if it sounded better than DVD-A. Sony is concerned with satisfying the desires of it's shareholders and the best way to do that is with steady revenue and healthy profits. As MP3 becomes a profitable method of distribution don't think you won't see "MP3 by Sony, convenience and sound quality from the leader in audio technology"
Thinking that any of these companies are concerned with sound quality outside of the R&D lab is just plain silly.
- Business... Joven 21:04:56 03/22/00
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SACD was designed in way to solve many problems...be it financial, technological, and others... Sony does care about it sounding better than DVD-A.
Of course Sony would make a MP3 device, if there's a demand for a product to be made then why not make one.
