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In Reply to: RE: I have heard those... posted by mkuller on July 23, 2012 at 11:43:47
They both beam, are unacceptable above and below the midrange, can't play loud and diminish dynamic contrasts.
JWC had double 9s before the Dayton-Wrights and I accompanied him to visit a guy in Macon who had an HQD system with the Hartley woofers and Decca ribbons.
As for me, the answer to all those limitations is the Sound Lab design. The faceted panels greatly minimize beaming so long as you get a 90 degree model or array. They really do the first and last octaves. Dynamics are more a function of power and panel area.
Ray Kimber put together impressive demos of his Iso Mike recordings using either double or triple arrays of 922s (9 foot tall - 22 degree radiation) or 945s (9 foot tall - 45 degree radiation). My U-1s are effectively "790s" in a steel frame.
Pics of Ray's arrays
You do, however, need some space. Double 945s will fit tall rooms.
Follow Ups:
I disagree. Power is needed but area is for loudness which is not dynamics. Dynamics are linear changes in level(both large and/or small changes) which requires linear driver motion. I wonder how a driver stretched tautly moves linearly. I suspect the Sound Labs hide this better than most because of their very large surface area.
...is react very quickly to the signal since there is so little mass to move.
They have incredible low level detail and microdynamics as long as the background noise floor is low and doesn't cover it up.
They are also extremely coherent.
As far as macrodynamics, it will depend on the power driving them, but with their large surface area, they should do well.
Like most full range speakers, the audio range is divided into different drivers.
You may be correct about the speed. But I'd like to see it measured to confirm it. It isn't lightness it's power to weight ratio. And while a planar is very light it has a lousy motot partly and significantly due to the wide gap needed to allow the driver to move without hitting it. If lightness was all that amttered a Smart car would out accelerate a Buggatti Veyron.
Like most full range speakers, the audio range is divided into different drivers.
Whereas the KLH and Quads employ separate woofer and tweeter panels, most Sound Lab electrostats use a single diaphragm for the entire range. The segmenting you see is the grid which controls the directivity of the variable height virtual cells. Electrically, however, they are one. The various full range models vary only in width and height. I've been to Gunnison and seen them in various states under construction. Yes, SL also offers a line of compact hybrids for HT using dynamic woofers.
A true full range electostat as opposed to an electrostat that operates full range. The sound field changes very little as you walk up to them, around them or move your head up or down anywhere along the panel. Coherent they are to a very high degree.
The Acoustats in the vintage system operate similarly, but use multiple identical panels like the Dayton-Wright for full range operation.
Having said that, Dr. West will custom build a special double diaphragm sub woofer called the UB-1. They are the wider ones in the middle. Note they have a flat rather than curved front.
The description of the original ESL is not absolutely correct.
Something like the KLH-9 used three different drivers covering three discreet ranges. A true 3-way system.
The Quad ESL is not exactly the same even with its multiple panels. The central strip of the ESL runs essentially full range. The strips that flank either side of the central strip roll off the top with a series resistor and full range other wise. What we call the 'tweeter' panel is in fact an essentially full range panel. But it does not have enough surface area to produce adequate bass response.
Add the additional bass panel to reinforce the bottom of the range. The inductance of the transformer rolls of the required topend of the bass panels.
The Quad is a 3-way in a sense. But not really. At least not the classic definition of that term. It is really closer to stats like the Stax F-81, Audiostatics or the late Acoustat Spectra series.
Something like the KLH-9 used three different drivers covering three discreet ranges.
KLH 9 description
"Each panel contains a complete two-way, full-range electrostatic system. A small square panel at the middle of one edge serves as a tweeter above about 2kHz, while the entire lower range is handled by eight large strips of diaphragm material that almost completely cover the remaining frame area. "
My point was to enlighten Mike of single driver designs. Indeed, there are many electrical and physical tricks designers have used to optimize response. The size of the Sound Lab facets tapers from top to bottom to distribute the diaphragm resonance in a more efficient manner than the usual method of employing "damping felts".
Thanks for the clarification on the KLH-9. I have never actually been inside one of these speakers.
(and it doesn't always!), the Koss One was a "traditional" three or four way stat using differently sized panels for each range.
...I've spent any time with was the Renaissance model circa 1979.
It was used with subwoofers and they were sitting on top of the subs.
Very nice, but nothing like the more current designs.
The Renaissance series had a total of 700 square inches of radiating area. Which is also why the Martin-Logan CLX at 1150 sq in also requires a conventional woofer.
Contrast that to 2200 sq in for U-1s or 3125 for either nine foot tall Prostat/Majestic.
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