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In Reply to: RE: Why do you keep forgetting rap? posted by Chris from Lafayette on September 14, 2020 at 14:40:06
OK - take my 30yr old son as an example. He's the son of a musician, he grew up hearing classical music and at the age of 6 he could tell a good Chopin pianist from a bad one.
He doesn't listen to classical music because it's not relevant to his life. He listens to Rap because it is relevant to his life. But he is a connoisseur of Rap - he knows its history, origins, most creative artists and he is particularly interested in French rap which is an interesting subculture of it with some excellent lyrics. He is intelligent, aware, has a degree in design and is a typical modern kid.
Is this something to make fun of as if it's some kind of aesthetic aberration? OK - Rap isn't my music but I've studied the artists my son has suggested to me and there are some very creative things going on there. There's also a lot of arrogant junk. But in any genre you'll find intelligent and creative musicians.
Follow Ups:
. . . answered one of my posts with a no text subject line, as follows:
"Anybody that brings up rap when talking about A-A's in classical music has issues"
Just making some gentle fun out of all this - let's not take ourselves TOO seriously! ;-)
to do so, that rap somehow is where A-As belong is racial bias. Should Japanese stick to their native music?
Your post might be less inflammatory if posted in a vacuum, but injustice isn't some academic exercise.
Please answer this: do you think black folks somehow are innately unable to appreciate, perform, compose classical music? Is it a Chinese, Japanese thing, but not one for those of African heritage? Perhaps you feel the culture excludes it?
One mostly comes to love classical music from a family, a teacher, or a friend. What if a young person has none of those, through no fault of her own--- but otherwise, once given the opportunity, loves the music?
This isn't really about classical music, ballet, painting, or any other "high art." It's about access and opportunity to education and resources. You seem unaware of the past history of prejudice against women and Asians practiced by many (all) orchestras...
. . . [implying that] rap somehow is where A-As belong is racial bias.
Whoa! Did somebody do this? Show us where! I want to get to the bottom of this!Should Japanese stick to their native music?
No. Are you promoting that idea or something?Your post might be less inflammatory if posted in a vacuum, but injustice isn't some academic exercise.
I can practically feel your SJW juices flowing!Please answer this: do you think black folks somehow are innately unable to appreciate, perform, compose classical music?
No. Where did you get that idea?Is it [classical music] a Chinese, Japanese thing, but not one for those of African heritage?
Nope.Perhaps you feel the culture excludes it?
And perhaps I don't. Again, where did you get that idea?One mostly comes to love classical music from a family, a teacher, or a friend. What if a young person has none of those, through no fault of her own--- but otherwise, once given the opportunity, loves the music?
I would say, well done - yes, such people have overcome some formidable barriers, and, in a certain sense, have even shown great heroism - and I've never argued otherwise.This isn't really about classical music, ballet, painting, or any other "high art." It's about access and opportunity to education and resources.
While I do not disagree at all with your point about the lack of access and opportunity to various societal advantages within the African American community, I still think it's possible (pretty certain in fact!) that, culturally, there are certain artistic preferences among various ethnic and racial groups - worldwide. Do you want to argue otherwise?You seem unaware of the past history of prejudice against women and Asians practiced by many (all) orchestras...
I can see you're running out of steam here, but I'll put up my awareness of past history and prejudice towards whomever (including women and Asians) up against yours any day of the week. What else you got?
Edits: 09/14/20
[implying that] rap somehow is where A-As belong is racial bias.
Whoa! Did somebody do this? Show us where! I want to get to the bottom of this!
YES, (EXCUSE THE USE OF CAPS BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EMBOLDEN TEXT HERE), YOU DID. THE POST IS ABOUT CLASSICAL MUSIC AND RACIAL BIAS--- AND YOU ONLY SPEAK TO RAP. WHY DID YOU MENTION THAT, CHRIS?
Should Japanese stick to their native music?
No. Are you promoting that idea or something?
NO. BUT IF WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE LATEST JAPANESE PIANO SENSATION AND YOU ASKED WHY I DIDN'T BRING UP SHOMYO... I'D FIND IT ODD.
Your post might be less inflammatory if posted in a vacuum, but injustice isn't some academic exercise.
I can practically feel your SJW juices flowing!
YES, I SUPPOSE SOME FIND AMUSEMENT A GOOD DEFLECTION.
Please answer this: do you think black folks somehow are innately unable to appreciate, perform, compose classical music?
No. Where did you get that idea?
BECAUSE YOUR ONLY COMMENT ABOUT THEM WAS TO BRING UP RAP. WHY DID YOU?
s it [classical music] a Chinese, Japanese thing, but not one for those of African heritage?
Nope.
OKAY.
Perhaps you feel the culture excludes it?
And perhaps I don't. Again, where did you get that idea?
AGAIN, YOU NEGLECTED THE TWO ARTICLES AND THE THRUST OF MY POST TO OUT-OF-THE-BLUE(S) BRING UP RAP.
One mostly comes to love classical music from a family, a teacher, or a friend. What if a young person has none of those, through no fault of her own--- but otherwise, once given the opportunity, loves the music?
I would say, well done - yes, such people have overcome some formidable barriers, and, in a certain sense, have even shown great heroism - and I've never argued otherwise.
This isn't really about classical music, ballet, painting, or any other "high art." It's about access and opportunity to education and resources.
While I do not disagree at all with your point about the lack of access and opportunity to various societal advantages within the African American community, I still think it's possible (pretty certain in fact!) that, culturally, there are certain artistic preferences among various ethnic and racial groups - worldwide. Do you want to argue otherwise?
You seem unaware of the past history of prejudice against women and Asians practiced by many (all) orchestras...
I can see you're running out of steam here, but I'll put up my awareness of past history and prejudice towards whomever (including women and Asians) up against yours any day of the week. What else you got?
I'm done! Gonna listen to some Entremont, Chopin mucis.
My ORIGINAL comment wrt to rap music (in the thread below) was: " Why isn't there an outcry for more white people to be represented in the rap music industry? " [In the context of the outcry about more African American representation in symphony orchestras.]
The question (quoted in its entirety above - notice there's no reference to black people in it!) was part of a two paragraph post, so your claim that I was speaking only about rap music there is absolutely untrue. There's a link to the whole post below.
My post about rap music IN THIS THREAD was in response to your subject line response below to one of my posts: "Anybody that brings up rap when talking about A-A's in classical music has issues." Ah! The absolute certainty of the zealot! (More about this later.)
OK - on to the rest of the line items:
IF WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE LATEST JAPANESE PIANO SENSATION AND YOU ASKED WHY I DIDN'T BRING UP SHOMYO... I'D FIND IT ODD
Huh? OK, I give you full marks for complete off-the-wallness here! ;-)
I SUPPOSE SOME FIND AMUSEMENT A GOOD DEFLECTION
Huh? Deflection from what?
YOUR ONLY COMMENT ABOUT THEM [African Americans] WAS TO BRING UP RAP. WHY DID YOU?
First of all, that's not true: you seem to have conveniently forgotten that that I also asked for your words of wisdom about African Americans living in non-slave states, as well as pointing out that many northern soldiers in the Civil War gave their lives to help rid the country of slavery. There were other comments too, but you were obviously so triggered by my reference to rap music that you couldn't think clearly - even though that comment itself (quoted above in this post) was made WITHOUT a reference to black people. All I referred to was rap music and WHITE people. It was simply an attempt to suggest looking at the situation from another (a kind of opposite) point of view. But no! We can't have that now, can we?
YOU NEGLECTED THE TWO ARTICLES AND THE THRUST OF MY POST TO OUT-OF-THE-BLUE(S) BRING UP RAP
If you're talking about THIS particular thread (rather than the thread below where my original reference to rap music appeared), then, yes, my "out of the blue" rap reference (here in this thread) was intended as a "reveal" of your own lack of knowledge about African American culture and your hypocrisy in attributing the deficiencies which you're afraid will be exposed about you to someone else (moi!). (Jung called this kind of thing your shadow.) Nevertheless my original rap post in this thread was intended to have a certain humorous aspect to it, and was taken that way (I think?) by jimbill.
OK, I think that's a. . . uh. . . wrap! Enjoy your Entremont!
f
I'll leave it for others to judge how gratuitous the Kanye post was. After all, we were discussing the African American experience in the music of America, weren't we? And now, here's The Man trying to deprive Kanye of his anticipated rightful earnings from his music! As I said in that post, truth to power! ;-)
boohoo .. read the contracts you sign first
that goes for anyone contracting for anything always
regards,
I think the nuts and bolts of what we're talking about - culture, poverty, "high art" etc - happens right across the globe.
I don't know much about the Indian music scene but I imagine we have the same elements in place - a caste system, access to "high art" instruments like sitars, rich families and poor families, a culture built around film music and so on, high and low dance forms........
Maybe somebody who knows Indian music better than I do can elaborate.
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