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In Reply to: RE: A successful musician and teacher opines at the lack of posted by tinear on September 14, 2020 at 10:37:25
Rap has spawned a truly impressive variety of its own sub-genres:
- Boom bap
- Backpack
- Cloud rap
- "Conscious" hip-hop
- Crunk rap
- Emo rap (yes, I kid you not!)
- Frat rap
- Gangsta rap
- Grime rap
- Horrorcore
- Hyphy
- Jazz rap
- Latin trap
- Old school rap
- Rap rock
. . . and much, much more! What are you waiting for, tin? Why do you care to know so little about all this? There's no doubt SO much of value to mine for all composers! Get studying! ;-)
Follow Ups:
Please give me you favorite "song" in each category!!!!
- Boom bap: Gang Starr - "Just To Get A Rep"
- Backpack: Mos Def - "Mathematics"
- Cloud rap: Main Attraktionz - "Chuch"
- "Conscious" hip-hop: Blackstar - "Definition"
- Crunk rap: Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz - "Get Low"
- Emo rap: Lil Peep - "Awful Things ft. Lil Tracy"
- Frat rap: Huey Mack - "Call Me Maybe" (Remix please!)
- Gangsta rap: Dr Dre & Snoop Dogg - "Deep Cover"
- Grime rap: Dizzee Rascal - "I Luv U"
- Horrorcore: Gravediggaz - "Burn Baby Burn"
- Hyphy: Mac Dre - "Feeling Myself"
- Jazz rap: A Tribe Called Quest - "Excursions"
- Latin trap: Bad Bunny - "Caro"
- Old school rap: Kurtis Blow - "The Breaks"
- Rap rock: Beastie Boys - "No Sleep 'Til Brooklyn"
I can just imagine y'all thinking, "Wow! Chris sure does know his rap music!" ;-)
Here's an email my son sent me. I think it gives you a very good idea of how an aware and musical 20-something year old sees the world of music...."So as I said in our call, there are quite a few sub genres in Hip Hop and different sounds that come along with that. I also think it's a good idea to share with you the whosampled links for each track, as this will also give you an idea of what music served as their inspiration.
I guess we should start with the origin of the hip hop sound, which came from New York. The two most successful artists from this time were Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa. They had differing styles - one being straight from the streets and the other being... well basically from outer space.
Afrika Bambaataa - Planet Rock
https://www.whosampled.com/Afrika-Bambaataa/Planet-Rock/Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five - The Message
https://www.whosampled.com/Grandmaster-Flash/The-Message/Pete Rock is a universally respected producer of hip hop that came onto the scene pretty early on and has made beats for a huge variety of artists, mostly from New York and the East Coast. Here are a few examples of his sound.
Pete Rock & CL Smooth - Escape
https://www.whosampled.com/Pete-Rock-%26-C.L.-Smooth/Escape/Pete Rock & CL Smooth - T.R.O.Y. (They Reminisce Over You FYI)
https://www.whosampled.com/Pete-Rock-%26-C.L.-Smooth/They-Reminisce-Over-You-(T.R.O.Y.)/DJ Premier Is another big name from New York, who is so ubiquitous to Hip Hop production that his reach is global, rather than being considered strictly East Coast. Has pretty much worked with every big name.
Nas - N.Y. State of Mind
https://www.whosampled.com/Nas/N.Y.-State-of-Mind/Mos Def - Mathematics
https://www.whosampled.com/Mos-Def/Mathematics/Gang Starr - Above the Clouds
https://www.whosampled.com/Gang-Starr/Above-the-Clouds/Again staying in New York (in case you can't tell I have a huge bias between the 2 coasts), We have 2 completely different sounds, that are forever linked for one reason. November 9, 1993. On this day 2 of the biggest and most important hip hop records of all time were released - Wu Tang Clan - Enter the 36 Chambers alongside A Tribe Called Quest - Midnight Marauders. They couldn't be on more opposite ends of the spectrum.
The Wu Tang Clan, led by the RZA, are inspired by Shaw Brothers Kung Fu movies, producing a raw, rugged sound.
Wu Tang Clan - C.R.E.A.M. (Cash Rules Everything Around Me in case you were wondering)
https://www.whosampled.com/Wu-Tang-Clan/C.R.E.A.M./GZA - 4th Chamber
https://www.whosampled.com/GZA/4th-Chamber/
Just a side note, GZA (AKA Genius) is an interesting figure, who just happens to be part of the American science community and good friends with Neil Degrasse Tyson.A Tribe Called Quest are what you would call high brow hip hop and have very eclectic samples. They are a founding member of the Soulquarians, who strived to present an intellectual and Afrocentric view on life in the USA in the 90s. The Soulquarians include such luminaries as The Roots, De La Soul, Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Erykah Badu and a certain J Dilla (we will get to him later).
A Tribe Called Quest - Electric Relaxation
https://www.whosampled.com/A-Tribe-Called-Quest/Electric-Relaxation/A Tribe Called Quest - Award Tour
https://www.whosampled.com/A-Tribe-Called-Quest/Award-Tour/Here we are, time to look at J Dilla. Mr. No Quantize. We've already spoken quite a bit about this guy. He is widely considered the greatest Hip Hop producer of all time. The fact he passed away in his 30s only adds to the sense of awe people have when regarding his body of work. Originally from Detroit, he has made music all over the world and is pretty much above regional styles.
Common - The Light
https://www.whosampled.com/Common/The-Light/De La Soul - Stakes Is High
https://www.whosampled.com/De-La-Soul/Stakes-Is-High/The Pharcyde - Runnin'
https://www.whosampled.com/The-Pharcyde/Runnin%27/The Pharcyde - Drop
https://www.whosampled.com/The-Pharcyde/Drop/MF DOOM (to quote a track listed below: Remember ALL CAPS when you spell his damn name) is bizarre, unique and my personal favourite because of his absolutely ridiculous choice of samples. Frank Zappa, Steely Dan, random episodes of Ironside. Nothing is off limits for this guy. He also refuses to be seen in public without wearing a metal mask inspired by a comic book villain named Doctor Doom. All of his music is produced under the guise of his numerous alter egos (DOOM, Viktor Vaughn, Madvillain, King Geedorah to name a few) and he is known to send impostors in masks to live performances instead of going himself. Absolutely. Bat Shit. Insane. How can you not love a guy who released an album called Vaudeville Villain.
Viktor Vaughn - A Dead Mouse
https://www.whosampled.com/Viktor-Vaughn/A-Dead-Mouse/MF DOOM - Gas Drawls
https://www.whosampled.com/MF-DOOM/Gas-Drawls/Madvillain - ALL CAPS!
https://www.whosampled.com/Madvillain/ALL-CAPS!/Madvillain - Meat Grinder
https://www.whosampled.com/Madvillain/Meat-Grinder/There is so much more to explore, but I feel we should cut this short. There is one more sound that immediately comes to mind - West Coast G Funk. Think Parliament, George Clinton, Zapp. Dr. Dre was one of the pioneers and Hip Hop's first billionaire. You may recognise his name from the headphones 'Beats by Dre' which sold to Apple a few years back in a massive deal.
Warren G and Nate Dogg - Regulate
https://www.whosampled.com/Warren-G/Regulate/
This track defines G Funk2Pac - California Love
https://www.whosampled.com/2Pac/California-Love/Dr. Dre ft. Snoop Dogg - Nuthin But a G Thang
https://www.whosampled.com/Dr.-Dre/Nuthin%27-but-a-%27G%27-Thang/I hope this serves as a good intro to Hip Hop. We're just painting with broad strokes here, some very important sounds and artists are not included.
Edits: 09/15/20
Who knew we had this kind of expertise (even though it's a little indirect) within our humble forum! ;-)
Anyway, thanks!
.
minstrel shows?
I swear, when you SJW types latch on to something, you DO get mighty righteous!
OK - take my 30yr old son as an example. He's the son of a musician, he grew up hearing classical music and at the age of 6 he could tell a good Chopin pianist from a bad one.
He doesn't listen to classical music because it's not relevant to his life. He listens to Rap because it is relevant to his life. But he is a connoisseur of Rap - he knows its history, origins, most creative artists and he is particularly interested in French rap which is an interesting subculture of it with some excellent lyrics. He is intelligent, aware, has a degree in design and is a typical modern kid.
Is this something to make fun of as if it's some kind of aesthetic aberration? OK - Rap isn't my music but I've studied the artists my son has suggested to me and there are some very creative things going on there. There's also a lot of arrogant junk. But in any genre you'll find intelligent and creative musicians.
. . . answered one of my posts with a no text subject line, as follows:
"Anybody that brings up rap when talking about A-A's in classical music has issues"
Just making some gentle fun out of all this - let's not take ourselves TOO seriously! ;-)
to do so, that rap somehow is where A-As belong is racial bias. Should Japanese stick to their native music?
Your post might be less inflammatory if posted in a vacuum, but injustice isn't some academic exercise.
Please answer this: do you think black folks somehow are innately unable to appreciate, perform, compose classical music? Is it a Chinese, Japanese thing, but not one for those of African heritage? Perhaps you feel the culture excludes it?
One mostly comes to love classical music from a family, a teacher, or a friend. What if a young person has none of those, through no fault of her own--- but otherwise, once given the opportunity, loves the music?
This isn't really about classical music, ballet, painting, or any other "high art." It's about access and opportunity to education and resources. You seem unaware of the past history of prejudice against women and Asians practiced by many (all) orchestras...
. . . [implying that] rap somehow is where A-As belong is racial bias.
Whoa! Did somebody do this? Show us where! I want to get to the bottom of this!Should Japanese stick to their native music?
No. Are you promoting that idea or something?Your post might be less inflammatory if posted in a vacuum, but injustice isn't some academic exercise.
I can practically feel your SJW juices flowing!Please answer this: do you think black folks somehow are innately unable to appreciate, perform, compose classical music?
No. Where did you get that idea?Is it [classical music] a Chinese, Japanese thing, but not one for those of African heritage?
Nope.Perhaps you feel the culture excludes it?
And perhaps I don't. Again, where did you get that idea?One mostly comes to love classical music from a family, a teacher, or a friend. What if a young person has none of those, through no fault of her own--- but otherwise, once given the opportunity, loves the music?
I would say, well done - yes, such people have overcome some formidable barriers, and, in a certain sense, have even shown great heroism - and I've never argued otherwise.This isn't really about classical music, ballet, painting, or any other "high art." It's about access and opportunity to education and resources.
While I do not disagree at all with your point about the lack of access and opportunity to various societal advantages within the African American community, I still think it's possible (pretty certain in fact!) that, culturally, there are certain artistic preferences among various ethnic and racial groups - worldwide. Do you want to argue otherwise?You seem unaware of the past history of prejudice against women and Asians practiced by many (all) orchestras...
I can see you're running out of steam here, but I'll put up my awareness of past history and prejudice towards whomever (including women and Asians) up against yours any day of the week. What else you got?
Edits: 09/14/20
[implying that] rap somehow is where A-As belong is racial bias.
Whoa! Did somebody do this? Show us where! I want to get to the bottom of this!
YES, (EXCUSE THE USE OF CAPS BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EMBOLDEN TEXT HERE), YOU DID. THE POST IS ABOUT CLASSICAL MUSIC AND RACIAL BIAS--- AND YOU ONLY SPEAK TO RAP. WHY DID YOU MENTION THAT, CHRIS?
Should Japanese stick to their native music?
No. Are you promoting that idea or something?
NO. BUT IF WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE LATEST JAPANESE PIANO SENSATION AND YOU ASKED WHY I DIDN'T BRING UP SHOMYO... I'D FIND IT ODD.
Your post might be less inflammatory if posted in a vacuum, but injustice isn't some academic exercise.
I can practically feel your SJW juices flowing!
YES, I SUPPOSE SOME FIND AMUSEMENT A GOOD DEFLECTION.
Please answer this: do you think black folks somehow are innately unable to appreciate, perform, compose classical music?
No. Where did you get that idea?
BECAUSE YOUR ONLY COMMENT ABOUT THEM WAS TO BRING UP RAP. WHY DID YOU?
s it [classical music] a Chinese, Japanese thing, but not one for those of African heritage?
Nope.
OKAY.
Perhaps you feel the culture excludes it?
And perhaps I don't. Again, where did you get that idea?
AGAIN, YOU NEGLECTED THE TWO ARTICLES AND THE THRUST OF MY POST TO OUT-OF-THE-BLUE(S) BRING UP RAP.
One mostly comes to love classical music from a family, a teacher, or a friend. What if a young person has none of those, through no fault of her own--- but otherwise, once given the opportunity, loves the music?
I would say, well done - yes, such people have overcome some formidable barriers, and, in a certain sense, have even shown great heroism - and I've never argued otherwise.
This isn't really about classical music, ballet, painting, or any other "high art." It's about access and opportunity to education and resources.
While I do not disagree at all with your point about the lack of access and opportunity to various societal advantages within the African American community, I still think it's possible (pretty certain in fact!) that, culturally, there are certain artistic preferences among various ethnic and racial groups - worldwide. Do you want to argue otherwise?
You seem unaware of the past history of prejudice against women and Asians practiced by many (all) orchestras...
I can see you're running out of steam here, but I'll put up my awareness of past history and prejudice towards whomever (including women and Asians) up against yours any day of the week. What else you got?
I'm done! Gonna listen to some Entremont, Chopin mucis.
My ORIGINAL comment wrt to rap music (in the thread below) was: " Why isn't there an outcry for more white people to be represented in the rap music industry? " [In the context of the outcry about more African American representation in symphony orchestras.]
The question (quoted in its entirety above - notice there's no reference to black people in it!) was part of a two paragraph post, so your claim that I was speaking only about rap music there is absolutely untrue. There's a link to the whole post below.
My post about rap music IN THIS THREAD was in response to your subject line response below to one of my posts: "Anybody that brings up rap when talking about A-A's in classical music has issues." Ah! The absolute certainty of the zealot! (More about this later.)
OK - on to the rest of the line items:
IF WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE LATEST JAPANESE PIANO SENSATION AND YOU ASKED WHY I DIDN'T BRING UP SHOMYO... I'D FIND IT ODD
Huh? OK, I give you full marks for complete off-the-wallness here! ;-)
I SUPPOSE SOME FIND AMUSEMENT A GOOD DEFLECTION
Huh? Deflection from what?
YOUR ONLY COMMENT ABOUT THEM [African Americans] WAS TO BRING UP RAP. WHY DID YOU?
First of all, that's not true: you seem to have conveniently forgotten that that I also asked for your words of wisdom about African Americans living in non-slave states, as well as pointing out that many northern soldiers in the Civil War gave their lives to help rid the country of slavery. There were other comments too, but you were obviously so triggered by my reference to rap music that you couldn't think clearly - even though that comment itself (quoted above in this post) was made WITHOUT a reference to black people. All I referred to was rap music and WHITE people. It was simply an attempt to suggest looking at the situation from another (a kind of opposite) point of view. But no! We can't have that now, can we?
YOU NEGLECTED THE TWO ARTICLES AND THE THRUST OF MY POST TO OUT-OF-THE-BLUE(S) BRING UP RAP
If you're talking about THIS particular thread (rather than the thread below where my original reference to rap music appeared), then, yes, my "out of the blue" rap reference (here in this thread) was intended as a "reveal" of your own lack of knowledge about African American culture and your hypocrisy in attributing the deficiencies which you're afraid will be exposed about you to someone else (moi!). (Jung called this kind of thing your shadow.) Nevertheless my original rap post in this thread was intended to have a certain humorous aspect to it, and was taken that way (I think?) by jimbill.
OK, I think that's a. . . uh. . . wrap! Enjoy your Entremont!
f
I'll leave it for others to judge how gratuitous the Kanye post was. After all, we were discussing the African American experience in the music of America, weren't we? And now, here's The Man trying to deprive Kanye of his anticipated rightful earnings from his music! As I said in that post, truth to power! ;-)
boohoo .. read the contracts you sign first
that goes for anyone contracting for anything always
regards,
I think the nuts and bolts of what we're talking about - culture, poverty, "high art" etc - happens right across the globe.
I don't know much about the Indian music scene but I imagine we have the same elements in place - a caste system, access to "high art" instruments like sitars, rich families and poor families, a culture built around film music and so on, high and low dance forms........
Maybe somebody who knows Indian music better than I do can elaborate.
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