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I have two pairs of Kimber 8TC speaker cables. One pair are the clear and white-colored ones, the other are blue and black.
What are the material differences between these two cables and, for those with experience listening to both, what are the sonic differences?
BTW, my blue/black pair are bi-wire and the others are a straight stereo pair. Both are 10 foot terminated with bananas. They cannot be interchanged on my two pairs of speakers. B&W 801 Matrix Series IIs are configured for bi-wire and Quad ESL-63s for a stereo pair.
Basically, I am interested in what, if any, differences I might hear in changing the blue/black pair on the 801s with a white/clear pair.
Thanks,
George
Follow Ups:
Black color doping pellets involving carbon content tends to be detrimental to sonics vs. the clear and white colored Kimber 8TC. It's even possible the white colored dielectric is not actually colored via color doping pellets, since some Teflon insulation looks white based on how it's processed. Some reports indicate the clear and white Kimber 8TC presents better clarity and more bass slam. YMMV
nt
I think the diff is smaller than the improvement biwire brings. Try the newer style on the 801's and see. With the biwire cable on the 801's I assume you removed the jumpers.
ET
The original purchaser from whom I bought the speakers said he had removed the stock jumpers for bi-wiring. He was using them in biwire configuration, so I assume the jumpers were set correctly. I have never taken them apart to verify this though. I just assumed he and his dealers knew what they were doing.
Love these speakers!
I've compared the old and new version of 4TC back to back a few times. I think the new clear/white version sounds a bit clearer and the old blue/black version has a bit of grain in comparison. The difference is not dramatic, but it did lead me to upgrade to the new version wherever I was using it. Also, FWIW, I prefer a double run of 4TC (in parallel not shotgun) over 8TC.
Thanks, Dave. Each of my blue/black 8TC speaker cables have two bananas at the amp end and four at the speaker end.
I am unfamiliar with what internal, external biwire and shotgun mean. Can you enlighten me on this? Also are your 4TCs thicker or thinner cables than the 8TCs?
Many thanks,
George
Sorry for the late reply.
A 4TC cable has 4 wires for the positive leg and 4 wires for the negative leg, for a total of 8 wires in a counter-rotating braid. 8TC has double the number of wires in each leg, 8 of each, for a total of 16 wires in a counter-rotating braid. The individual wires are the same for both, so 8TC is thicker.
When used in a single-wire configuration with just a + and - connector at each end, 8TC has roughly half the resistance and inductance of 4TC but more than twice the capacitance of 4TC. In most systems, 8TC single-wire will have more bass than 4TC single-wire, but 4TC will have a clearer and more extended treble. The results are system dependent of course.
Your configuration is called "internal bi-wire". Regular bi-wiring (external) means running one cable with + and - legs to the low frequency binding posts of the speaker, and running a separate cable with + and - legs to the high frequency binding posts. Internal bi-wire is the same thing except the low and high frequency runs are within the same cable instead of being in physically separate cables. Internal bi-wiring is done by taking a single cable and using half the conductors for the low frequency run and the other half for the high frequency run.
Since 8TC uses the same wire as 4TC but with double the number of wires, your 8TC internal bi-wire cable is almost the same as external bi-wiring with two 4TC cables. However, there will be less isolation than you would get with two separate cables.
Shotgun also uses two cables, but instead of using one cable for LF and one for HF (each with a +/- pair), in a shotgun configuration one cable is used for the + leg and another cable for the - leg. A shotgun configuration reduces capacitance but increases inductance. Capacitance and inductance depend on the spacing between + and - conductors, which is uncontrolled when using separate cables, so shotgun can produce inconsistent results.
Finally, a double run is just connecting two single cables in parallel, with the + leads from each cable connected together at both the amplifier and speaker ends, and the same for the - leads. This configuration reduces resistance by half, doubles capacitance, and reduces inductance only a little bit.
A double run of 4TC will have about the same resistance as a single run of 8TC, a little less capacitance, and more inductance. Subjectively, I find that a double run of 4TC sounds closer to a single run of 4TC in the treble and closer to a single run of 8TC in the bass, which is a good tradeoff to my ears. But it's system dependent.
I suggest you also search for the Kimber "puffing" tweak, where you take a 4TC or 8TC cable and compress it lengthwise to expand the braid, sometimes inserting rope in the center. This will reduce the length of the cable by 25% or so, but if you can spare the extra length it is worth checking out and is easily reversible.
LOL!
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I'm not sure if Kimber made other changes but as you probably know, several years ago they changed the color of the Teflon insulation in the 8TC. Evidently it was found that the black + blue pigments in the insulation negatively affected the sonic performance of the cable. The change was made to clear + white which they believe doesn't negatively affect the performance.
The link below is a an AA discussion dealing with this subject you might find interesting:
the black + blue pigments in the insulation negatively affected the sonic performance of the cableI've read it argued, in a different but still audio-cable context, that the dyes used in black insulation material are made from carbon (as is black printing ink). Changing to a carbon-free dye would affect the cable's electrical characteristics in a manner that might well be perceptible to some. Can't comment on blue.
Edits: 02/04/16
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