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I recently tried the Mogami Neglex W3104 12 gauge twisted speaker cable suggested here. After 100 hrs and cryotreating, I went back to the Jon Risch twisted pair. I regained high end sparkle, and greater cymbals definition. I will be using the Mogami for the bass frequencies in a biamp set up. Does anyone have a better DIY than Jon's speaker cables that you have actually compared them with ? the application will be for the mid-tweeter applicationThanks for any suggestions.
Much appreciated
Edits: 08/08/15 08/09/15Follow Ups:
I used Jon's 89259 based speaker cables in a bi-wired setup for many years. yeah, I tried some others but still kept coming back to these in the end. Eventually I added some ground enhancers and it did improve things, but took some experimentation to get just right.
Then I tried Pete's Triode Wire Labs speaker cables and they replaced my beloved 89259's. No, it wasn't a night and day difference, because both sounded like music. But the little extra I gained was worth it IMO.
Enjoy,
bob
A gentleman is best defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion ... and doesn't.
The JR 89259 DIY speaker cable is the cat's meow and the bee's knees! In my opinion, these are the finest sounding speaker cables once they are broken in. If you are ABing them without giving the JRs at least 100 hours of break in time you will certainly sell the Jrs short. Giving the appropriate break in time the Jrs are amongst the best speaker cables available.I settled on these cables 15 years ago. I have tried any number of cables before and since, but the JRs just do it for me in my system. YMMV
DaveT
Edits: 08/10/15
Looks like the Belden cable holds up pretty well in the DIY arena based on the number of responses here
Thanks all
Wow, even 14 years after I built the silver foil version of the cross-connected Ubyte-2 speaker cables, I find it to still sound best out of all the commercial and DIY designs I've tried. Caveat is these tend to work best in systems with lower-power tube and higher efficiency speakers.
The problem is finding good quality silver foil at reasonable prices, then trimming it to 1 inch width in order to wrap it around Belden 89292 foamed teflon core with 14 AWG copper solid core wire. The manual labor involved is very long and difficult also.If you don't feel like spending that much time or money, I do recommend Triode Wire Labs speaker cables for mere mortals without a huge budget.
Edits: 08/10/15
Years ago, I made a set of Jon's quad version CC89259, which I thought bettered the original single pair version, which I also made several sets of. There was a commercial/on-line company selling both versions but I am not sure whether they are still out there.
As DIY alternatives, you might try making something out of Jupiter Condenser's copper in cotton wire, which I find to have an excellent natural sounding tonality, or the NOS Western Electric wire some folks are discussing over at Audiogon. I have had good luck with Harmonic Technology's OCC small gauge copper wire, which is individually insulated with foamed polyethylene - IMO a better sounding dielectric than Teflon, although the foamed Teflon on the 89259 is better than most. You can buy older sets of HT Pro 9 or Pro 11, or the + versions, which are inexpensive when purchased used, and then re terminate to your length with your favorite connectors, or harvest the bundled wires inside and create your own design...maybe without all the damping material and thick PVC outer covering.
As opposed to solid PEP Teflon and solid PE, foamed/cellular FEP Teflon such as VH Audio's propriety AirLok dielectric is the most transparent material I've experienced, while foamed/cellular PE adds a level of warmth which may be considered to sound more euphonic rather than that of a more transparent sonic signature, IME. YMMV
I agree with what you hear Duster.
As Jon Risch pointed out years ago, the foamed stuff sounds better than solid dielectrics.
I actually like that bit of warmth from foamed PE and find that Teflon adds a slight harshness to my ears, or maybe that is in contrast to the warmth from the foamed PE I am used to hearing.
In the past couple of years, I have found that my favorite is typically good copper in cotton, which I find to natural sounding with a really nice tonality.
Bare copper with a cotton dielectric is prone to oxidization and corrosion. A design like that won't bode well in the long term...
I believe the oxidization and corrosion issue is a bit overblown when using high quality copper in a (usually dry) home environment. The oxidation thing became a panic when folks like Monster Cables used crappy plastic coverings that reacted with their copper and caused it to turn green.
I have been making ICs with some 6/9's copper in cotton that is at least 10 years old and shows absolutely no signs of corrosion...it is as shiny as any brand new copper I have ever used. The cables sound outstanding and, so good in fact, one audio manufacturer replaced his $3K reference cables with a set and we have spoken about supplying some of his clients.
For added protection, the cables I make do use a spaced away (outside of the dielectric zone) layer of teflon tape as a moisture barrier, as well as adhesive lined heatshrink at the connectors.
These OCC speaker cables have excellent user reviews and only $120.00.
@RadioWonder...Was looking at the Choseal(LB5110) a few months ago. They called it the poorman's cardas. Any experience in how they sound?Thanks!
Edits: 08/09/15
Like I said in my post, I have not listened to any of the Speaker Cables from this company...
If you listen to this YouTube video, you can make up your own mind...
If I purchased a pair, I would condition them on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker for 4 to 5 days...
Have you used/heard these?
I would be skeptical since the advertising I can find online does not provide other key information such as wire gauge, dielectric, or geometry which, IMO, all play a larger role in the sound of a speaker cable than the use of OCC copper.
Product Description
Choseal LB-5109
OD19mm*2.5m
High Definition Home Theater Cables
24K gold-plated banana plugs
99.9999% 6N OCC
100% Spiral Wound Bare Copper Shield
Connectors:Banana Plug - Banana Plug.
Low-impedance low-loss low-distortion
Weight: 4.5KG...
+++++++++
I trust this company because I purchased a pair of their Solid Silver Sennheiser Headphone Cables... Less than $100.00 and wonderfully sounding cables... Much better than stock cables...
Plus you have three user reviews... Two are verified purchaser...
If $120 is too much they have an even cheaper pair for $85.90...
Like other Chinese products introduced into the marketplace, description of materials and design can be woefully inadequate, and often misleading and sloppy, if not downright deceptive. This is not to say I don't purchase Chinese products, since I use a modded TeraDak DAC and a Breeze Audio PSU in my computer workstation system, and find them to be audiophile quality.
However, I don't tolerate fake branding of parts and look-alike builds that don't deliver the goods, since this practice can only dumb-down the audiophile notion of high-end gear within a marketplace that should demand credibility.
As for the Choseal LB-5109, it's offered as an original product, so the only deception might be whether or not the conductor is OCC rather than OFC. Additionally, there is no mention of the particular dielectric, so it could be mundane PVC rather than those of a lower dielectric constant. There is also no mention of solid core or stranded conductors nor cable geometry other than a "100% Spiral Wound Bare Copper Shield". Shielding is a design factor usually implemented for line-level interconnect designs rather than speaker cables which may suffer from poor dynamics even more so than a shielded line-level interconnect often will vs. unshielded cables.
just my 2 cents
The photo shows spade lugs, but the description says banana plugs. They aren't the same, you know.
Happy listening,
Jim
"The passage of my life is measured out in shirts."
- Brian Eno
In addition to what Duster points out, the main omission, to me, is that I cannot find the wire gauge anywhere in the literature. Some would argue that is the single most factor affecting the performance of speaker cables, particularly if it is inadequate. Therefore, if I were in the market for the Choseal LB-5109 wire, I wouldn't even know how much copper I would be getting. The price is immaterial to me since, if the product doesn't meet my needs it is a bad deal, no matter how little it costs.
I agree; the specific effective gauge of a particular speaker cable is an even more fundamental omission. Indication of that factor is so essential, it didn't even cross my mind at the time...
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