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Hi Everyone,
Which direction should I be going towards...solid core or stranded if I needed an IC with thicker bass, richer and fuller mids and softer (relaxed)highs? Or neither...just depends on design and make of the IC.
Thank you.
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You want to maximize the effective conductivity at all frequencies from 20Hz to 20kHz+.
Lots of folks approach this differently. Audioquest use separate conductors to make the effective conductivity approximately constant throughout the audio realm.
Lots of others play with geometry to approximate a transmission line.
Some play with geometries to minimize microphonics, play with conductor diameters, and build transmission lines. Some do all kinds of things that will solve specific problems.
Lots of approaches, many of them have basis. Whether it works for you depends upon your situation and if it ends up improving or mucking up the sound.
I've found that the very best cabling I have used has been like that last 1mm twist on a focussing ring on a telescope or microscope. It's a small step, but a pretty important one as everything snaps into focus.
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Cardas or AudioQuest.
Duster is correct about the stranded but stranded is inappropriate for the audio signal IMO and I'm sure Duster's also. If you use 16 awg magnet wire and warm connectors (and cu solder) you will get a warm and very good sound. Tweaker
So the same wire is available in bulk, but NOT with the same insulation... from Kimber.
The Hero IC (particularly the XLR configuration) has great bass. Not as much so the SAME WIRE with other insulation.
Just saying.
Both the dielectric (insulator) and the metal wire itself affect the sonic signature of a conductor, not to mention cable geometry.
While bigger is not always better, larger gauge conductors tend to provide more body, more authoritative bass, more assertive midrange presence, and more subdued treble vs. smaller gauge conductors which tend to sound leaner if not at times more refined sounding in terms of neutrality/transparency/dynamics. Finding a "happy medium" can provide a more ideal sounding conductor of choice for a given application.
Regarding dielectric effect, various dielectric materials implemented as wire insulation have distinct sonic characteristics due to audible dielectric involvement, which in some cases can produce increased tonal bloom or perceived warmth if not smearing, veiling, slowness. PVC is notorious as a potentially problematic insulation material, since it has a high dielectric constant relative to lower dielectric constant types such as Teflon, polyethylene, and newer polymers for audiophile purposes.
It may depend on where you are starting from. If you are using a solid core interconnect cable at this time, it could depend on the gauge of the conductor involved. If you are using a stranded conductor cable at this time, you most likely will already have a euphonic presentation, IME. In that stranded conductors tend to provide *artificially* thicker bass, richer and fuller mids and softer highs than well designed solid core interconnect cables tend to provide, IME. YMMV
Thanks everyone for your help!
Hi i have a DIY experience.
I found a small and cheap coaxial with the center conductor in Cu solid core without plating and the sound was less harsh especially in the midrange. Actually quite full and warm. I liked it.
So i think that solid core wires could be a solution.
I think that is an harsh midrange what can irritate most.
The ear is more sensitive in the midrange.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/10/15
In past experiences I've found that inexpensive stranded wire sounds thin and bright. You generally have to drop big dough to avoid that.
I've found inexpensive solid core wire to have more of what you're looking for. DNM cables are a good example of this.
I make my own ICs out of Mogami 2549 bulk cable and Switchcraft 3502A RCA connectors.
IMHO, quite good and VERY affordable.
Steve
Ha! Yea Mogami 2549 is quite something,very good for an embarrassingly
Cheap price of .80/ft!!
System dependent as all cables you need to try it.
Terminated with home grown audio rhodium over silver RCA's.
NICE, Very NICE!
Edits: 04/11/15
I own interconnects made from Mogami 2549, 2534 and 2524. They are all "good for $30" interconnects and can compete sonically with cables costing a little more.
Recently, I stumbled across an listing on Amazon and bought a pair of Mogami W2803 for $90. This cable is in a different league. It has far better clarity, resolution of fine details, deeper bass and soundstage size and precision compared to the other Mogami cables I mentioned above that I own (or anything else under $300 that I have heard). Despite it's high resolution, it is not a "bright" sounding cable so it won't "open up" a dark sounding system, but if you want a neutral sound with high resolution, I would wager you can't do much better than this cable.
I haven't posted about this previously because the cable is currently sold out and the seller has emailed me he is going to re-introduce the cable with different connectors (KLE Harmony RCA's) at a higher price. So I was waiting to see how much he is going to charge.
My understanding is that W2803 is (or was) Mogami's top of the line audiophile cable that was not previously sold in the USA. It is a thin, stiff cable that doesn't look like much, but I think it is worth auditioning.
Edits: 04/08/15 04/08/15
I have been pleasantly surprised by W2893 for XLR interconnects. I use them in my HT system. I tried them in my 2ch rig also, and they bested some low end and midrange Cardas, Kimber, Audioquest, and Tellurium Q, but not the Silver Audio that I'm using now. These Mogami cables are very well balanced all around, top to bottom, with good dynamics. Great value for money.
Hi thanks very interesting indeed
I found this here
http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/microphone/unbalanced/
" Note: For the very highest quality recording applications, Mogami original high-end Neglex audio cable Part No. W2803 or Part No. W2497 constructed with patented Double - Cylindrical structure should be used "
that confirms your recommendation.
I am trying to find more info about its construction.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
There is not a lot of information available about it. However, if you google it, you can find some information on the internet. I believe it is made from pcocc copper with a proprietary dielectric that is designed to reduce eddy currents or skin effects. I can't tell if the copper is a single strand or multiple strand.
Hi and thanks a lot for the very helpful reply
I would like to try something of the "litz" kind.
After reading here ...
http://www.thresholdlovers.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=1098
Sommercable Albedo
Bass 8
Mid 9
High 8
Soundstage 9
Price 8
A good and tactile midrange is a very big challenge with digital (i only listen to digital these days).
I know that Cardas cables have a really magic touch with digital.
I tried, but unbalanced, both 300B and Neutral ref ... the 300B that i have is very good indeed. The Neutral just wonderful, but expensive.
i purchased a 1m pair of XLR Sommercable Albedo. They should be litz.
Let's listen.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Another option is the higher-end MIT cables. They have rich mids and excellent bass, with outstanding imaging. But stay away from the lower-end MITs.
That said, I think Cardas is better for ICs.
I think the post below hit the nail on the head when suggesting Cardas. Look for a cable line that favors that sonic signature, rather than the solid core vs. stranded approach. What you seek can be achieved by either construction type.
There are fine stranded (Litz?) cables and fine solid core cables.
I would guess that if you had 1 pair of well-engineered and constructed cable type that uses superior parts and wiring that was stranded and another identical pair that was solid core, you probably wouldn't even hear any difference.
That said, what can make a significant difference is having either cable type properly cryo-treated. And it's not just a more natural bass that you will hear but many other sonic improvements too.
But if you were to try this route, the only way to really hear said differences is if you have the associated speaker cables cryo'ed also.
Hi and excuse me for a question
You say " I would guess that if you had 1 pair of well-engineered and constructed cable type that uses superior parts and wiring that was stranded and another identical pair that was solid core, you probably wouldn't even hear any difference " for stranded you mean stranded litz ? because i read something about interstrand distortion or similar.
I wonder if normal stranded wires (no litz) could be all affected by this type of distortion.
In that case only cables made out of litz or solid core wires should be chosen i guess.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/11/15 04/11/15
Well, my Audio Tekne speaker cables are a Litz wire, so by default I think of Litz when I think of stranded. I've not heard of inter-strand distortion but I've heard plenty about "time smear" which for 10 years was a big buzz word but that concept seems to have faded. Perhaps inter-strand distortion is the new name for "time smear".
I really only know about cables from an end-user performance-oriented perspective. In my experience, cables of any type generally sound more alike than different. But every so often, one comes along that is clearly more musical than others I've tried. As well as once in a blue moon, one is clearly more inferior than the others.
IMO, some-to-many new cable discoveries and terminologies come and go so I try not to pay much attention to them.
Even something so silly as a cable's girth. 10 years ago, if your cables weren't 3 times the girth of your garden hose, you weren't an "audiophile". That was such nonsense. In fact since 2005 I've been using Audio Tekne speaker cables whose girth is smaller than a No. 2 Pencil. It was a tad more musical than any of the other cables I'd used prior to, but its performance really came into its own when when I had them double-cryo'ed via the popular vapor method and they really started to sing when I had them cryo'ed in 2013 via the full-immersion method.
My tiny Audio Tekne's, cryo'ed via what I consider the superior full immersion method, remain the most musical speaker cables I've yet experienced and I've owned or auditioned speaker cables retailing for upwards of $8500 a pair.
The added benefit of the Audio Teknes is that they confound those who still consider huge cables as a minimum qualification for superior sound.
The Teknes are copper and my IC's are silver. I would love to audition a superior silver speaker cable cryo'ed via full immersion as I suspect such a cable could be even more detailed and musical. Just as my humble BPT silver IC's retailing for $300 have demonstrated. The BPT IC's remained in my closet for 8 years, but when recently having them cryo'ed via full immersion, they are now the most musical I've yet owned or auditioned.
Hi and thanks a lot indde for the very informative e valuable advice
I have only a mid/high end experience with Cardas Neutral Ref IC and i was amazed by the difference they made in sound.
They transformed my digital cd player in a turntable litterally.
And they are of the litz kind. So it seems that litz is indeed a sane concept for signal cables.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
In my experience generally a solid core design will get you going in the direction you are looking for.
I don't think it's that simple, that's only one parameter.
But what you're describing is the Cardas sound.
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