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Dear John,
I you or any of the other excessively sensitive inmates cared to read my post in context and in balance with some of the other responders, it should have been evident that my opinions were clearly stated as such. I am entitled to "MY" opinions aren't I? My benevolent nature even conceded to those who pursue a different approach than mine to cables. My post clearly stated that I had used more than a few competing designs to my preferred cables as well. Mature, non socialist, fair minded inmates would consider my post an interesting diversion to much of the commonly solicited drivel. I apologize for having a strong opinion. Perhaps those who were offended should take a look at their own narrow minded views regarding cables. Experimentation yields the most successful results. I put up the money and did the time....how many of you silver cable DIY'rs can say they had a $20K cable rig in their system to compare to their $100 favorite wire?
Regards,
Dave B
dave_b
Follow Ups:
Be civil, or you will be gone from here.
Your post:
"or any of the other excessively sensitive inmates .."
you start out denigrating active and long time members of the Cable Asylum
"My benevolent nature even conceded ..."
Who made you king when no one was looking?
" ... an interesting diversion to much of the commonly solicited drivel."
More blanket denigration and egotistical behavior.
" ...take a look at their own narrow minded views ... "
It is kind of hard not to see your adamant statements that only two manufacturer's get cables right, and every other approach is wrong, as not being narrow-minded in a big way.
" I apologize for having a strong opinion."
I am sorry, but I don't believe your apology.
Quite simply, if you don't start treating others here with more respect and courtesy, you will be gone from this forum.
It is not a matter of the opinions you hold, and you are certainly entitled to have your own opinions, but it is the manner in which you attempt to cram those opinions down everyone else's throat with out any regard for simple courtesy or appropriate language and simple real world experience. That real world experience says that what works for you, in spades, may not work for some one else or the system they have painstakingly put together that pleases them.
Your failure to acknowledge this, and your insistence that anyone else's experience is invalid, because it is not yours, on your system, is simply uncivilized and unacceptable.
One more strike, and you are out of here.
Don't like it, then quit posting.
Moderator,
Jon Risch
a couple of times and even stepped on once or twice. However, I understand why rules are in place. Once certain liberties are allowed, it's easy for agenda-driven inmates to use effusive reviews to further the cable Mfgr business in an effort to receive free products in the future. I've seen it here before. Your personally honest assessment could pry the manhole cover off for the unethical to enter. There's no doubt in my mind that it's challenging when making comparisons not to denigrate one product in favor of another. However, it's done here every day. Hang in there.
"It's all fun and games until someone doesn't pick up on the sarcasm"
There exists zero need to walk any line, in any forum. It is an open place to share intel and exchange ideas. Simple.
If only that was true. Not much is really 'simple'. 'Should be' and 'is' are very different.
"It's all fun and games until someone doesn't pick up on the sarcasm"
I WILL AND THANKS!
dave_b
Hi, Dave.
FWIW, I didn't mind engaging you in that previous thread as you seemed pleasant enough. I mean it's not like you were ready to go to war and die for your attachment to MIT and Transparent. Did I think your comments there were littered with hyperbola and emotion? Yes. Did I think your logic was somewhat unsound and unreasonable? Yes. Was I offended? No. Did I believe or agree with anything you said? I hope not. :)
But hopefully it was from that perspective that I addressed your comments in that thread.
Then again, which of us haven't expressed a bit of hyperbola and emotion about a product or experience either now or in time past? That includes some-to-many reviewers too. High-end audio can do that sometimes. Especially if one (not saying you) was wandering in the desert for 40 years, even a drop of cold water can sometimes seem like an entire jug filled with water.
All I ask is if you post your system here, you give me first crack at critiquing it. :)
System posted per your request....although all that matters is decided by myself:)
dave_b
Listed it on this thread:()
dave_b
"how many of you silver cable DIY'rs can say they had a $20K cable rig in their system to compare to their $100 favorite wire?"
Well, as one of your "silver cable DIYr's" who recently posted a $700 recipe for silver foil speaker cables, I'll admit to having somewhat guiltily held for a time a $30K loom of commercial cables from one of several manufacturers of uber-expensive wire that Fremer compared in a cost-no-object review awhile back. My threshold moment with commercial cables was a couple of discussions at a show with the senior editor of a major audio magazine, who argued almost to the point of apoplexy that high-priced commercial cables are the biggest scam in audio, and have almost single-handedly brought down the audio hobby. That's an extreme position, but it turned my head and I'm not looking back. To each his own.
That's the spirit of discourse that should be emulated here...rebuttal with examples, personal experience and intrigue!! I love it;))
Still bet you I would prefer my cables over yours! Silver foil? I think it would fair better as a food storage medium than an audio signal conveyance device.
dave_b
First of all, it's fare, not "fair."
Second, that's the kind of snarky "humor" that pisses people off. If you're going to complain about how unfairly your intentions are misunderstood, lay off the wise ass remarks about other people's important stuff. That guy went through a lot of trouble and expense to build his special cables and share the details with us, and all you care to do is make stupid jokes about it.
Please play nice or get lost.
Peace,
Tom E
Tom, I read over your system and I have to hand it to you...that is ambitious. I can understand your frustration with me after having poured so much effort into building your own kit. My enjoyment of this hobby is the same as yours and out of respect for that Idea, I will try to be less Snarky going forward.
dave_b
Just shake it off ...Shake it off!
dave_b
and not at all clever or original. Any dodo with money can play with expensive toys and delude themselves into believing they've found the solution to everyone else's problems. Dream on.
Looks like John closed the previous thread w/o regard for our conversation...
Yes, Brisson was quite a visionary in the high-end cable field. It would be interesting to learn the others who started their own operation besides Transparent.
Transparent was the distributor for MIT and basically when they split, Transparent ran away with the then current MIT ideas, although Brisson kept many new concepts for his own company.
Brisson had little start up capital and his original designs were made by sponsorship by Monster Cable as he once worked with Noel Lee. At the initial offerings, the same cables were identical in the Spectral, Monster and MIT line up, just with different labeling. Demian Martin, who worked for both MIT and Spectral, eventually became designer for Monster, although I am not sure if he is still there.
The triple gauge idea was unique to Brisson although in conversations with the man, even he admitted to some shortcomings.
The idea is further refined by Cardas with his patented golden ratio rule. Multiple gauges were also used by early Kimber Kable offerings, although the idea originated with Stan Warren IIRC( of Superphon and the S of PS Audio)
Thank You! Stu.
I believe I do remember reading about the cable lineage of which Brisson started with his Interlink cable design. All of this has very little bearing on current MIT cable products or any of the others for that matter. In fact , I was not a big fan of MIT UNTIL 2C3D stuff hit... Magnum and Oracle products. My favorite series is/was Oracle V1.2 and the new HD speaker interfaces. FAT has really upped the Harmonic complexity and natural tonal aspects of the sound.
dave_b
And yet when I asked Brisson about some concerns I had, he admitted that three gauges was not the ideal and that a circuit would be necessary to correct certain issues.
Sorry an additional EQ in the system I'd something I would rather avoid. Just my opinion, Of course
Fair enough :)
dave_b
Yes, on that I am not as well versed. I did just receive a pair of Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's for trial (because I am open minded and always looking for an interesting comparison). They are probably better than most silver/copper alloy cables available, but not really close to my Oracles, but nevertheless, still a great cable for $110!
dave_b
dave_b,
I must agree that Frank Dia's Signal Cable products are probably the best bang for the buck cables that are out there, and I've tried many competitors offerings before I arrived at that conclusion.
Frank doesn't waste any money running expensive ads in the glossy audio rags, nor does he engage in the usual bs found there. Word of mouth seems to be working for him, and I suspect that's a big reason why he can sell his wares at their price point.
Please note that I have no connection to Frank or Signal Cable. I'm just a very satisfied customer.
Cheers,
Al
I will second here, A1. I had the listening pleasure of auditioning Signal Cables/cords last year. Very good, indeed.
I concur...great cables at DIY prices!!
dave_b
But from the thread that follows up, it becomes clear that you're serious - and that's even worse. Much, much worse.
Yeah, you're entitled to your opinion, as clueless and unfounded as it is - unless, as you did there, you start shoving it down everyone's throat, insulting experienced inmates left and right. After that, the only thing you're entitled to is being insulted back.
BEING SERIOUS IS A PROBLEM? CLUELESS AND UNFOUNDED?
Have you owned even a smattering of what I have owned and used? Read the system and cable details I posted as reference here....then get back to me Marco Polo!
dave_b
Dave is posting his opinion on the matter of cables. We need NO censorship in these forums. This is a clear violation of our 1st Amendment rights.
Our first amendment rights do not transfer to an Internet BBS that is privately owned such as AA. Instead we are required to operate under their rules.
E
T
We ALL must raise the "bullshit" flag in matter(s) like this one.
And the rules say you can't have a strong opinion? I'll bet the people who are so upset that I can afford to own obvious High End Cables from successful companies who started the High End cable business, have their own favorite DIY or branded cable. They just obliquely infer that they have the best solution to the cable maelstrom....I simply tells it as I hears it. Have I heard other systems that sound good with other cables? Of course! My choices have been more successful on various systems than any other brands I have used, some of which are (not even close to a comprehensive list):Audioquest
Synergistic
Kimber Kable
PS Audio
Analysis Plus
Magnan
Morrow
Signal Cable(the best deal of them all)
Cardas
Monster M and Sigma Retro
Nordost
Geortz
Canare
Harmonic TechnologiesMemory fades...maybe I can go through my receipts and find some more examples:)
dave_b
Edits: 01/25/15
I've tried many on your list and others too. I was a dealer. I still wouldn't come out and say what I liked is best. Most people that buy and use something usually say good things about it. I get your points and urge you to continue on here in AA. It's the Internet so people go overboard a bit.
E
T
A couple of others popped into my mind...
Omega Mikro
Acoustic Zen
Mapleshade
dave_b
Point well taken;)
dave_b
Dear Dave:
Please read Johns comments again and you'll see they have little to do with stating your opinion. I too like John see it as at least "odd" you could or would come to the conclusion you did on two manufacturers when there are hundreds of others out there including hundreds you have not tried and never will. It was an unjustified and unproven leap you took. The role of synergy where cables are concerned is very important.
Maybe you'd want to post your system like many do here.
E
T
I posted my system and cables used on this thread. After trying various wire configurations with various metals and alloys, you begin to understand that although each sounds different, all of them are merely variations on a theme of "JUST WIRE". That is the problem and why MIT amd Transparent are my favorite solution. A symphony played back with their cables has dynamics and weight and air and texture and subtlety and contrast and ....well , you get the idea. Some of these aspects have been allowed through in the various cable designs I have used, but just not as holistically!
dave_b
I really don't see how it is so "odd" to have an opinion and a preference for 2 cable manufacturers after having owned 15 high end systems from various manufacturers and at the same time, utilized cables from over 30 different cable manufacturers! Give a guy credit to have put his money and time where his mouth is at least. My opinion...my systems...my cables...my experiences...my preferences! I have more than a slight suspicion that most, if not all of the people so SHOCKED at my presumption to have decided on a favorite cable after 20+ years pursuing this hobby, have not done the same. Of course everyone's systems are different and everyone has different priorities and tastes in music and gear, but I still have my experience and my opinion. In my experience, as I have said before, MIT and Transparent have sounded the best to me and many others. If that upsets the Silver Lovers Club of America or any other sub sect of the Asylum then for that I am sorry:( Again, if you read closely what I said, it was mentioned that I can fully understand why others cater to other cable designs for their systems. I am not one of them.My current system, listed below, is merely one slice out of my many years as an Audiophile:
B&W 802D's
Krell Vanguard Integrated
Krell 505 SACD/CD Player
Transparent Power Block AC Conditioner
Transparent Reference MM2 Power Cord
MIT Magnum AC2 Power Cord
MIT Oracle V1.2 Proline Interconnects/Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's Under Evaluation Currently
MIT HD60 Biwire Speaker Cables/Transparent Ultra MM2 Spkr Cables
REL S/2 Subwoofer wt Custom Signal Cable Speakon Connection
Regards,
Dave Borda
dave_b
Edits: 01/25/15 01/25/15
Very nice system, Dave.
Thanks...I think I have my preferences for audio reproduction finally figured out;)
dave_b
Dave,
Do you have a favorite cables for the money list. You've recommended MIT AVT1 quite strongly (~$60 used) and MIT (~$3600 used) Oracle v1.2. Er agh, my system has seven interconnects so I am kind of blown away by the price of the Oracle (must be nice having an integrated!). My speakers are triwireable (not counting subwoofer section) so things not a lot better there. (Monster M2.4s biwire on speakers now, attempting to transition from Monster M1500 to the massive M2000 Sigma interconnect.) It seems from your discussion that you have similar sonic prioritiies to myself. Another concern is capacitance as I am running a passive of sorts (Placette) with three amps. Even at 0.5m length, capacitance is an issue with some of the bigger cables.
Miles
Also traded in my MIT Magnum AC2 for an Oracle AC2 PC....I'm done:))
dave_b
Welcome! Miles.
Just closed a couple of deals on some cable updates:) Getting a Transparent Reference MM power cord and Ultra Gen 5 Biwires...Yay Me!!
dave_b
If you wanted to add a little of the AVT 1 magic to your system...I would recommend source first, I have an as new AVT 1 2M RCA IC available. Usually I just keep this sort of thing around because of it's inherent value, but if an Audio Bro needs a little something special? Let me know anytime....it isn't for sale for anyone else:)
dave_b
I would go with Signal Cable in your situation all around. You can't beat the price, he can customize and they sound world class!
I have no connection to Frank or SCable
dave_b
The moderators feel that allowing this thread to continue, even though it may hold useful information, will wind up creating more trouble than it solves, and thereby detract from the purpose of this forum.This is not the appropriate venue for discussion of this matter, and we ask that those with an interest in the subject, take it elsewhere (e.g. private e-mail).
No further follow-ups will be considered.
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