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Over a year ago I decided to upgrade my Transparent Ultra speaker cables. After bringing home and listening to more speaker cables than I can recall and at many price points my dealer finally got frustrated and said, here take these home, when I saw them I replied, are they over my budget, he replied I don't care. They were the M.I.T Oracles, yah there still here and won't being going back. I have no issue with raising my maximum price ( by three times ) but why is it always the highest price items sound the best? For once I'd like to hear something inexpensive that sounds best, and go home with a bunch of money in my jeans.
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Better design, materials, assembly techniques, and testing all cost more, but it is also the case that the market will apparently bear the relatively high prices that are charged. However from time to time there are a few bargains. The biggest bargain in truly high end cables I've come across is the Cerious Nano Reference cables, which are reviewed in the current issue of Stereo Times (online). As I've reported elsewhere in AA, I was able to insert the Nano Reference speaker cables in a system where the other cables (Isoclean, Audio Magic, Lessloss, Vitus) were more expensive top of the line products.
Good to hear CBernardino, there are still a few true bargains to be had , but I think there becoming harder to find. New companies seem to be more price conscious till they establish themselves. The only caveat there is sometimes these new companies don't survive long, and you lose any possible customer support, not usually a problem with cable's and such. I guess there would be a few folks that later might want to dress there system with matching cables. In the case of major components, I once purchased a very fine sounding tube amp from a new compony but had to sell it due to constant biasing problems. That company is still solvent now and building much more reliable products but no longer at favorable prices.
...it only makes sense that a more expensive one from that company will improve things.
But that says nothing about another company, whose cheaper cables may synergize better in your system. Maybe.
Steve
Couldn't agree more Steve, I had really hoped that one of the many cables I begged, borrowed or other would jump out of my little music maker and say " HERE I AM " and at a convenient price.
It was far from that easy, one cable had grand bass but not much else, another had swing but lacked at the frequency extremes, some had good detail but lacked that tat of warmth we prefer and many sounded similar. One night I was sitting back a little disappointed with what I had been hearing, when something started my toe tapping and the vocalists had suddenly joined us and were up close and personal. After a long enjoyable listen ( few weeks ) I came to realized that the decision was now well out of my hands.
I think there is a fair amount of agreement on both sides that whenever one claims to have a specific skill, that there should be a way for the person to prove that he has such a skill.
the disagreement starts with considerations regarding how such a "proof" should be constructed.
All cables sound different with diffent components. To evaluate a cable, you must use it in YOUR system. Price has little to do with performance.
" Price has little to do with performance " thats a good one, LOL, I only wish it were true.
As others above have mentioned about expensive cables and there being a placebo affect, maybe the same thing happens with cheap cables, people that don't want to pay the price, just convince themselves the inexpensive cable is the better sounding.
Hopefully are younger days where we felt bigger or more expensive must be better are long behind us.
tm....it IS true. I've heard many components including cables sound less good than less expensive ones. When I bought all my Ayre stuff, I also got the Ayre cables (made by Cardas) thinking that they were the best. After about a year of trying to "break in" the cables, I auditioned Nodost, Purist, Kimber, Audioquest, etc....all top of the line (most expensive) cables, and found that Anti-Cables were the best of them all in MY sytem. There was nothing worse than any Cardas permutation (I tried all of them because everyone told me that Cardas was the perfect match). Cardas was grainy, one dimensional, kind of brown in color, etc....awful. Interesting also was that Audioquest Sky/Everest was the Anti-Cables equal, but Audioquest signature WFL cables were way less good in MY system. Everyone MUST listen to components in THEIR system to determine if they work well.
They gave my empty sounding treble emphasized system the rich golden sound it was capable of. Every one who heard it loved the change. What can I say other than different cables for different systems.
I had Cardas 5C interconnect, 1 meter. Got rid of it after I discovered a grating sound coming through the cable.
Much time later, I realized that vibration management could cure the grating sound. But it was much, much time later. So many changes. Who knows?
Jedrider, you said vibration management could cure the grating sound. Do you listen at high levels, and how did you cure the problem.
That's exactly why I say you have to LISTEN to what the cable, or any other component does is YOUR system to know if it's your cup of tea.
No what you mean about Cardas , SgreenP. I've tried Cardas cables and other than there power cords I was not that impressed. My power cord journey started in the seventies with some home made stuff, heavy gauge wire with large connecters, eventually I realized that the home made jobs were better than stock but not by much. I then tried some inexpensive N.B.S. cords then Transparent, latter I had a gaggle of Cardas Gold Reference cords, that a friend still has, eventually I moved up the Shunyada ranks until settling in with there Anaconda's.
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Not really true
Our audio club recently did a blind testing evaluation of 12 audio cables
The cables ranged from $50 to $2500
There was no correlation at all between the ranking of the cables and there price
The $2500 cable actually came in 5th out of 12. I will not name the cable as I think that would be unfair to the dealer that loaned us the cable to try
Alan
Could be a matter of synergy, or perhaps the more expensive cable was revealing weaknesses upstream. Your conclusions are inconclusive.
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Would ahendler PM me re results of test? I am probably not in his area, therefore it could not harm the dealer and might save me from making an expen$ive mi$take.
Can't say there was to much price correlation between the cables I dragged home either, not that I took notice of anyway, but it was the stupid priced ones that ended my search, that was before I new the price.
I have to agree.
Although I have not tested every cable, I have heard a good sum of cables from various categories. IME there has been a loose association between cost and performance with cables.
I would say that materials [solid core vs. stranded], construction and insulation has more to do with sound than retail price.
That being said, I tend to like solid core vs stranded and minimal insulation vs heavily insulated irregardless of price.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
you cannot say that the best ones cost the most. You can only say that
the most expensive of the ones you auditioned sound the best.
And, did you do any blind testing? I know, blind testing is a taboo
subject around here, but I believe in it. Perhaps those expensive
cables sound good to you because you they are expensive.
"Perhaps those expensive cables sound good to you because you they are expensive."
Perhaps that's also true when evaluating expensive power amplifiers, preamplifiers, CD players, etc, or is it just cables that tend to turn audiophiles into such poor evaluators? What makes cables any more confusing to the audiophile ear than say the evaluation of a capacitor, vibration control footer, AC outlet, etc?
As you pointed out, the notion of folks being hoodwinked when it comes to cables, with A/B tests being needed for a proper evaluation is indeed off-topic, and efforts to skirt the rules are not allowed in this forum.
i thought that was not permitted was posting things like "there is no difference b/w cables." is not ok to post "you should blind test cables A and B to see if you think that one sounds better than the other?"
in other words, i took the prphibition to mean that this is not the forum for those who want to argue with those who hear differences in cables. but i thought that this forum allowed "arguments" b/w those who think that certain specified models of cables may or may sound different from each other in say a blind test.
for convenience here is a paste of the provision:
"The Cable Asylum is for those who have decided that audio cables make a sonic difference. If you do not feel that audio cables do sound different, then do not post here. Posts that state that audio cables sound the same, or that all one needs is zip cord and/or dimestore coax, may be deleted, re-directed or other actions taken at the sole discretion of the moderators or the Bored. If you post more than one such post, you may be banned from the Cable Asylum."
-andre d
Casual testing is fine, and what's often done when evaluating new cables vs. prior cables. What is not allowed are contentious A/B discussions about DBT (Double Blind Testing) and ABX (Double Blind Comparator) which is the use of a box that allows fast switching between two things to be compared, A versus B:
"Certain areas of the Asylum have been designated as DBT (Double Blind Testing) free zones. In these designated areas, the topics of DBT and ABX are strictly off limits. Any post related to these topics will be subject to deletion."
See link:
thanks duster. i appreciate the info. and it makes sense.
-andre d
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