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Hello everybody.This is my second post to find out what upgrades are done in bringing the V5 to V5X (but not the "new" V5X). I'm interested to know because I am about to have it done by the dealer here in Hong Kong.
I note the review by Soundstage was done on the V5X not the "new" V5X. And they do highly recommend existing V5 owners to upgrade it to V5X. I would appreciate comments from owners of V5 who have done such upgrade. Of course, inputs from Charles Hansen would be even better. Many thanks.
Follow Ups:
Hello -It appears that we don't do as good a job telling the world about our products as we do in designing them. I'll try to clear up some of the questions that have been raised in this thread.
However, please feel free to call the factory if you have any remaining questions. Typing lengthy answers in what amounts to a nearly one-way conversations is very inefficient. Further disincentive is the fact that in a few day's time, virtually no one will ever read this thread again. Instead, you can talk to someone at the factory for 10 minutes and get all your questions answered. Assuming you live in North America, it will cost you less than $1. Go for it!
1) Regarding the specific differences between the V-5 and the V-5x, the power supply regulators were improved. This gave significant sonic improvements in all areas, but especially so in the bass. For more information, read Wes Phillips' review that covers both models and the differences between them at link noted below.
2) We are just now releasing an upgrade to all of our models called "evolution". All models will now have an "e" suffix at the end to designate this change. The main change is a new power supply technology we call "Dynamic Power" that includes newly developed circuitry to increase instantaneous current delivery, reduce mains-born RF interference, and eliminate residual switching noise from the rectifiers themselves.
There may also be other changes, depending on the specific model. In the case of the V-5xe, we have also improved the ultrasonic compensation scheme (an Ayre-developed neutralization technique that allows us to eliminate the traditional output inductor).
Look for an official announcement and more details regarding the Ayre "evolution" on our website later this month.
3) ThomasW's V-5x had *part* of the "evolution" upgrade installed a few months ago. He happened to bring in his unit to be upgraded to "x" status as we were developing the "evolution" upgrade. We hadn't finalized either the upgrade or the plans for it, but decided to include part of it for him while it was in the shop. We wouldn't divulge any details to him because it was a work-in-progress at that time.
We're not a particularly secretive bunch. For example, the V-3 amplifier used to have the schematic diagram silkscreened on the inside of the lid. We stopped doing it because nobody particularly cared about it, and it was a pain to have to change the lid if we ever made updates to the circuitry (which we did twice during the 8 years it was in production).
4) Ayre has the best upgrade policies of any company in the business, bar none. We have been in business for over 11 years and have introduced 12 products during that time. Ten of those products are still in production. Any of those 12 products can be fully updated to the very latest status if the customer chooses to do so.
The cost to upgrade is very fair, and much lower than other manufacturers' upgrade programs (assuming that they even have one -- usually they would rather try and sell you a complete new unit). Taking the V-5 as an example, it was introduced in early 2001, close to four years ago, at $3950 US retail. Two years later it was changed to the V-5x at a price of $4500 US retail. Any V-5 customer can have his unit upgraded for the price difference between the two. It doesn't get any fairer than that.
With the introduction of the V-5xe, there is no increase in the US retail price. Customers who have purchased a new V-5x within 90 days will receive a *free* upgrade (no demo units or trade-ins qualify for this program). US customers with older V-5x amplifiers can have the unit factory upgraded for well under 10% of the US retail price. Again, it doesn't get any fairer than that.
In conclusion, please enjoy your Ayre equipment. It makes wonderful music and is designed to last a lifetime. If you feel the urge to upgrade your system, we can accommodate you. And should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact the factory at +1-303-442-7300.
Best regards,
Charles Hansen
I learned there was a 'new x' mod out there by reading these postings. I've now read of the further 'e' development, again from this Asylum -- admittedly not a good venue for such things, but its all there is.Please add a section to the Ayre website with 'official' changes or news, so the hearsay is minimized. It would be much better getting these things from Ayre than from these threads. I don't think most folks will call the company to chat unless they know there is something definite to ask about.
Hello FR -As noted in my previous post, "We are just now releasing an upgrade to all of our models called "evolution". All models will now have an "e" suffix at the end to designate this change...Look for an official announcement and more details regarding the Ayre "evolution" on our website later this month."
A wise man once said, "The purpose of time is to prevent everything from happening all at once." It is very difficult for us to:
- revise our entire product line
- implement an upgrade program for our entire product line
- make an official announcment on our web site
all at the same time, without some word leaking out. I hope it hasn't been too disappointing to get a sneak preview of the official announcement here at the Audio Asylum.
- "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"
- "Evidence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is the fact that they've never tried to contact us."
- "That's the trouble with engineers. They're always trying to change things." (Dr. McCoy in Star Trek)You make great products. I listen to music these days.
Take care-
FR
Hello Charles,Thank you so much for your reply, which I find very informative. I have always loved your work from the early Avalons to the now Ayre products. In terms of price/perfomance ratio, I think Ayre products are the best. Many thanks again.
As others point out (some too pointed), Ayre is not forthcoming about their design specifics, which is OK. This market is so competetive, no one divulges details.To restate the point, get all the upgrading available that you can.
I wasn't sure at first, but it appears that Ayre is starting down a road similar to what Audio Research pioneered years ago -- frequently and forever coming out with a change or "mod"; just enough to tweak owners into thinking they've got to keep sending their gear back and forth for upgrades, and never being satisfied with what they have. Always keeping them in flux so they never get static with their equipment. Artificially keeping the interest and sales up. This is speculation on my part. I hope I'm wrong.
That is, about the owner of the gear not being satisfied. In this hobby of ours, there are some who feel they have to have the latest & greatest to achieve any semblance of musical nirvana, although I think this approach cheats them of the opportunity to enjoy the music, as they're concentrating too much on the gear. My guess here is it's more a problem of system matching & room problems, which no upgrade can overcome (unless you go with something like Mothra Power). Don't forget some folks just like trying out new things. Who knows?Then again, maybe the manufacturer isn't content to just sit on their past accomplishments, instead striving to do the very best to offer the very best.
I have a biased view as an owner of three different Ayre products over the past 3.5 yrs, but I've been quite happy with their products & on a personal note, would only get an upgrade if it coincided with something else. For example, I purchased a Silver V-5 about 2 yrs ago & since all my gear is black, I had the seller ship it to Ayre where they changed it to a black unit & performed the x upgrade. I now have a V-1x and will eventually send it back to Ayre, as it was slightly damaged during shipping (that's a new one, eh?) and at that time will go for any new upgrades.
They provide upgrades when they find things that make the products sound better.The V-5 amps have been available for quite a few years, so it not surprising that technologies have evolved that allow the amps to sound better.
Some companies create entirely 'new' amps, and leave previous buyers to upgrade via that path much more expensive path. Since the fundamentals don't change all that much, it's logical to offer upgrades.
Besides no one is putting a gun to the head of the customer and forcing them to buy the upgrades, are they?
Other than that, they'd have to offer something. I have no beef with Ayre. You say you're good buds with Hansen, so maybe you're miffed at my implication. But the question bears a little scrutiny so hear me out.Switch over to Audio Research to grab an example. The SP-6A, -6B, -6C, -6C-1, ... and probably others that I missed in that succession, before moving on to the SP-8. Some of those changes were rapid on top of each other, to the point that reviewers couldn't keep up. Not all changes, but some.
What's your take on that history? Serendipitous findings at the factory offered in the spirit of good customer relations -- or might there have been a wee bit of profit motive?
My opinion? I don't know.
FR
Hi,No problems, certainly not miffed.
And yeap I've been around long enough to remember all the AR-SP variants. I too was confused.
"Serendipitous findings or profit motive?"
Probably both. Charlie is always tweaking the designs. Basically no design is 'frozen' for very long. At the point where various changes are viable enough to be marketed, an upgrade is offered to the public.
Ayre is a very small company, operating in the dog eat dog world of high-end audio. They need an income stream to stay afloat.
Ask said dealer if they can perform the e upgrade. This is the new Evolution upgrade Ayre just came out with.Here are a few more reviews about the Ayre V-5x
I'll answer this again, since you obviously didn't understand the first time.The specific details about the mods AREN'T available to the general public. Ayre doesn't want people doing DIY "X" or 'new' mods.
I have an "X" unit, and an 'new' "X" unit. If I were you, I'd get ALL the available mods.
When I picked up at the factory my V5 with both the "X" and 'new' mods, I ask them what was done. They smiled, and suggested that I listen to and enjoy the amp.
"The specific details about the mods AREN'T available to the general public. Ayre doesn't want people doing DIY "X" or 'new' mods".
I'm not asking about the specific details of the upgrades done in V-5X. All I'm asking is perhaps a general description of what is done to bring the V-5 to V-5X. I'm sure any manufacturers can disclose this fact to the knowledge of the public, and potential customers, in particular. I just don't see what the fuss is all about. As regards the DIY thing, I doubt very much that any existing V5 owners can DIY the upgrades themselves, because firstly I don't think Ayre sells the necessary parts anyway and secondly, customers just don't have a clue how to do it (remember it is SS amp not tube amp). Your comment sounds like you represent Ayre, which obviously you don't.
It's obvious from your comments that you don't understand the nature of the DIY community, and the level of sophistication DIYers possess. BTW, changing components in a solid state amp is no big deal.There are upgrades to the power supply (so called 'Ayre Conditioning'), some components on the PCB's are changed, and there's a new power switch, that make up the "X" mod.
Although I've been a personal friend of Charlie Hansen for some 25yrs, no one at the factory would discuss anything about the 'new' mod. It was however performed to the amp I took home.
What kind of speakers are you listening to?
Here's an older picture taken where we were doing initial setup and output level measurements.They are a quad amped hybrid planar array in horizontal MTM configuration (ala Quad). The 'woofers' are pair of Acoustat 1+1 ESL planels. The midrange is a B&G RD-75. There is a line array of 16 Techincs EAS-400H leaf tweeter on each side. There's a 12 driver IB subwoofer mounted in the floor centered between the mains
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