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Hi All,
I am a new member, but long time audiophile with no money!!
lol, I spent all my cash on a killer receiver, (So I thought) only to find out that like most receivers, even though it is loud, it doesn't move my Cerwin Vega speakers like I want it to.
I am looking into getting separate power amps for my mains and perhaps even looking into a mono block for my center channel and maybe even separate amps for my rear and side channels.
To be dead honest, all I want is to see my speakers move and push some air, carry some low frequencies.
My Amp is a DENON AVR988, it has the outputs I need to run separate power amps. I just want suggestions as to what amps to get. I want something smooth, with ample power for 150 RMS each side.
Hoping you guys can point me in the right direction.
Thanks a million!
Follow Ups:
I don't want to throw a wet blanket on your plan, but I think maybe the Denon receiver, used as a preamp, might not sound too pretty with higher-power, or more resolving components downstream. If you see what I'm saying, more power will amplify a slightly dull, grungy signal to the point where you can really hear it, warts and all.
That said, you'll probably upgrade some day, and why not get a great power amp to drive your front L/R speaks, or better L/C/R, now? It's a step. I like the recommendation for Bryston- they are super clean and very long-lived so good deal if you can find a decent one used.
I am running a 3 x 200w/ch Adcom GFA-5503 which is very clean and has seemingly unlimited punch, a design by Nelson Pass, one of the great amplifier gurus. Not the perfect amp, it lacks the last word in inner detail and space around the instruments, but it's solid and inexpensive- I bought a real nice one on Audiogon for 600 bucks.
A while before, I had a Parasound HAC-1205, 5-channel amp using it bi-wire on the front L/R + 1 ch on C, giving 600+ watts total. It was likewise very clean, solid, smooth and sweet through the midrange. A design by another guru, John Curl.
I've never heard them but the Emotiva amps have a super enthusiastic following and lots of watts for the price. You can score an XPA-3 3-channel monster for like $750.
Older amps can deteriorate, the big expensive capacitors in the power supply can rot. Look for toroidal transformers- the E-I laminated ones can delaminate and start to physically buzz. But I have had good luck with the ones above, they're made in a class like military gear.
I'll second the EMO idea. The new stuff is 'modular' and can be had with up to 7 channels.
Used is an option, too. The XPR-5 would work.
Too much is never enough
OK, the Saga continues...
I have tried moving the power to a seperate circuit, the hum is still present.
I consulted Monster about my power center, i am indeed running it correctly.
I also tested it using an i phone to RCA adapter, sounds perfect, no noise at all, the bryston is not the problem.
The only time it makes noise is when connected to the pre outs from the Denon.
Denon's reps told me the power coming in could be the problem, but how could that be if the amp sounds flawless when hooked up to just my phone?
I was thinking about getting an RCA ground loop interceptor like i used to use on my car audio installs... but i know this is more than likely going to filter out signal as well as hum...
Please help!
I got a hold of Mike at Bryston, what an awesome guy, had it diagnosed in two seconds.
It was my cable coming in from the street. it has noise on it, like lots of noise on it!!
He recommended a filter, but i called my cable provider and asked them to come and fix their grounds on my connections.
Thanks to this forum, i got a solid amp, and really good advice on what to look for.
Thanks so much for all your input Mr Peabody!
Glad I could help and really happy for you the ground issue is resolved.
OK So I think I have a ground loop issue. I need to get a ground loop eliminator, or make one. Any suggestions for this?
I would like something I could just buy, but there are all different kinds and types. should I get one that :
A)is on the RCA cables?
B)is for the wall plug?
C)is different than these?
Sort of a newbie at running multiple amps at once, I need to to be quiet, and have power on tap. I want to crank this up!!
If the Denon offers preamp outputs for mains in XLR, that's what I'd try first. You can buy XLR fairly reasonable to see if it corrects the issue.
Ground loop/hum is the worst thing to try to correct. I wanted to go from my Marantz processor into my 2-channel preamp so the systems would share the main amp & speakers. I went single ended as that's what my preamp has for the bypass, I got a hum. I tried everything to track it down and eliminate it. I finally used a XLR connection between the 2 components and it cured the issue. Because the XLR wasn't designated as bypass I just have to set the preamp to the same volume when watching HT.
I use a PS Audio Quintet 10 outlet filter and high quality power cords, so I was quite surprised to end up with a hum issue. You can try one of those cheater plug adapters to see if that does anything, the ones that take a 3 prong to 2 prong.
Yeah, I went with a Krell FPB 400cx monster amp to go with my Denon X5200 receiver, to try to get "bigger" sound out of my big Legacy Audio speakers. I have to say, I think it helped, but it is not a night and day difference, if that is what you're looking for.
The thing is, with using separate power amps with receivers, there are a few issues to try to figure out and optimize. These are the things I'm currently working on.
1. How do you know the receiver's analog output is optimally driving the power amp? I don't really understand this stuff, but don't some power amps require a certain voltage input to be driven optimally? What about impedance matching?
2. Cabling: IMO, you need really good cables with great bass characteristics, both for the analog interconnects and speaker cables. As to the speaker cables, I'm beginning to gather that you want at least 10awg cable for optimal bass impact and power.
3. Receiver setup: I assume you've already done this, but if you want to see the woofers "move", you need to, in your receiver's speaker setup menu, set the front L/R channels(and any other channels if they have large speakers) to the "Large" speaker setting, so as to send a full range signal to those speakers. If you want to integrate them with a sub and they are set to the "Small" setting, make sure their crossover setting is at 40Hz or lower, or they will not be receiving a signal with enough low frequency to actually move the woofers very much.
Here is a link to another power amp/preamp combo i was potentially interested in.
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/pml/ele/5847678635.html
Thanks for all the help everyone!
You said not much money but didn't give what your budget might be.
You might try a 2-channel amp for music and run the center/rear from the receiver. This should give you good power unless you listen to multichannel music.
ATI from the 2k series up will really move your speakers. I like digital amps for HT due to most having auto turn on. Although you could do the same with a trigger cable.
Parasound as suggested is a good option and great value.
On a budget you might also want to look at the marantz separate amps.
There are a large number of options without some way to narrow it down.
Adcom is a good option on the used market, I'd look for a 555 or 5500, the 5500 being newer, although both are discontinued.
My budget is cheap, but not so cheap that i won't purchase something good for a decent buck. I would spend up to 1000 to get my system pumping properly. hoping to get some bang for my buck and get some direction on this forum as to where i should start looking. A friend recommended Arcam, and Carver... the carver amps i looked at were well out of my price range.
I am trying to get two ten inch cerwin vegas to pump.
I have a Carver m1.0t powering my front mains. It's 200 wpc and actually uses little of that power because my subs do the heavy lifting. I've had it since 1986, and it was repaired and brought up to factory specs by Carver just before they went out of business and closed their repair shop.
The problem with this and some of the older Carver amps is parts availability. When this one was repaired, they told me that they had no future availability for some of the parts that they replaced.
I'm not a fan of Carver personally. Arcam sounds good but they are expensive and unless have changed recently spec and designed to work with 4 ohm speakers.
The Adcom amps I mentioned used are a good deal and typically run $500.00 give or take depending on condition and owner. A Bryston 3Bst usually sells used in your budget, although only rated at about 100 watts I guarantee it would romp the CV's. Plus, if I remember they can be bridged so down the road you can buy another and have monoblocks, at least double the power.
New, the Marantz are a good buy. For a bit more money, I think around $1300.00 Rotel has a Class D amp 200x2 that would do the job. I believe the Parasound Halo A23 is also not much over your budget. There may be some other offerings in your price but that's what I have off the top of my head, LOL.
Keep in mind not all watts are created equal. I think you are on the right track. A separate amp should have a larger and better power supply and stronger output stage, though it may be close to the same power rating as your receiver, it will be better equipped to drive your speakers.
Here is a link to a Craigslist ad that i was interested in... will post a couple others too
https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/ele/5808370980.html
Look into this. He exaggerates a bit but it's a strong amp that will rock your CV's
I took your advice and found a Bryston3b. the guy gave me a demo and i knew i was buying it. I took it home and set it up. There are insane amounts of hum coming from my mains when i hooked it up. If i unplug the input, it is dead silent, but as soon as it's hooked up to the Denon's pre out,Hum like crazy, i had to adjust the gain controls on the amp front until the hum went away, but now the speakers are quiet and still not moving like i want. During the demo, the thing shook the entire house with 2 12' old school JBL speakers... this is getting very frustrating. lol
Sorry, I'm not familiar with that brand
Welcome to the asylum-
Just be cause we are here does not mean we have it all figured out...
two suggestions, both are multi-channel amps
ATI they make some great amps - and are sometimes available on the used market-
2nd: Parasound - some of there older multi-channel amps might be great for your application-
Happy Listening
You might try the Red Dragon stereo 500W amps up front and some NHT A!s or similar for center/surrounds.A1s usually run about $150-200.The RDs have a return policy,just in case.
Tom:cat
Specs aren't everything, but there's little difference in watts between 110 and 150. You need 10x the power to get 2x the volume.
Still, receivers tend to be a little underpowered.
Have you used the auto-calibration yet?
Erik
I have done the auto and manual calibrations, and also spoke to a Denon rep about it. They walked me through maximizing the sound output, and still the speakers don't push air like i want them to and like they are designed to do.
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