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In Reply to: RE: This Proves It posted by PaulF70 on October 22, 2016 at 18:42:07
Going from balanced to se then se to balanced will not give you balanced. The chain is broken. There is some mentioned that there may be some benefit in this configuration that the cable itself is balanced. But is it? Likely wired for se at the terminations only and no extra cable internally. Just saying.
Cheers!
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
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You are quite right. The cable itself isn't balanced. It is just an expression that we use to avoid having to call it a " cable terminated for the connection of balanced output and input circuits" or somesuch.
It can have an extra cable internally i.e. a 3 rather than 2 core cable or the earth can be routed via the shield leaving the 2 conductors to carry + or - signals (not best practice). In an RCA to XLR cable like the OP's the negative or "cold" signal wire will be attached to the screen.
I know I'm only an end user but it seems to me that a balanced cable should be used for long runs. Like in a studio where the cables are 20+ feet long.
A typical stereo interconnect of 2-3". Seems like it's adding MORE crap in the signal path by having two extra circuits to first split and then rejoin the signal.
How would you know that those transistors aren't out of balance and ADDING distortion????? The typical better quality 3" cable does have shielding to prevent EMI - are we living too near a nuclear reactor or something?
It just seems like a lot of work to reinvent the cable again.
In a typical home listening environment with a small number of short cable runs, the common mode noise rejection improvement you get from balanced cabling shouldn't matter much.
A bigger reason to prefer balanced connections is that ground loop problems are much less common. In a system with single ended connections, the signal grounds of the different components are tied together through the same conductor which is carrying any ground loop currents. In a system with properly implemented balanced connections, the signal grounds of different components don't need to be tied together, and any ground loop currents flow on a conductor that isn't carrying the signal or its ground reference. Of course, not all balanced connections are created equally.
There is also an argument for implementing balanced circuitry internal to a component, for rejecting common mode noise generated inside the component. This is most commonly seen in power amplifiers to minimize power supply hum, because they have large power supplies that produce a lot of EMI.
Yes, you've alighted on the most common objections to balanced circuitry.
In particular the ideal requirement for the + and - circuits (or phase and anti-phase) to be identical can cost a lot in rejected components that do not match with their counterparts. I recall reading a report of a visit to FM Acoustics in Switzerland. The reporter was amazed at the bins of components awaiting disposal (or onward sale to other manufacturers). I am unsure if many manufacturers go to this length but it helps explain the stratospheric pricing of FM products.
In practice a balanced system may or may not perform better than a single ended one. It is all down to implementation and, I expect, the designer's original concept. I am pretty certain that quite a lot of consumer audio electronics were conceived as SE components only to have a balanced option piggy backed into the design for marketing reasons and where shortcuts for commercial reasons have been made.
NB: My own system is balanced but I made sure that I tried it in SE mode before deciding to keep it balanced. Probably because most of my equipment was made by firms with a pro-audio background where balanced is the standard. Also my interconnects are up to 5m long.
So, suck it and see is my motto.
Doubt your setup is true balanced , xlr inputs alone dont mean the setup is balanced ...
In exactly what way is a 4 box dCS Paganini (using AES/EBU connections and balnced outputs) into an ATC SAC2 or SPL Phonitor 2 into a pair of ATC SCM 50 ASLs not balanced? Please explain in full. All have fully differential balanced circuits.All are listed in my profile and I assume that you bothered to find out before posting.
Edits: 10/25/16
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