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In Reply to: RE: Sanders Magtech Amp posted by rkeman on October 04, 2016 at 04:56:06
It's been several years since I owned the ESL-300 (original) so this is from rough memory. The new Magtech, if anything, should have a much stiffer power supply, and therefore even more bass.Having said that, I don't quite agree with the online reviews. Ayre is slightly dark, Innersound cool, but not lean.
Innersound is super quiet (why aren't all amps this quiet) and does run relatively efficiently. However, I never warmed up to it's midrange and treble. It just didn't do it for me. I owned Focal Profiles at the time. It was significantly more clear and more powerful than my little Sumo amp, but that speaker has terrible and unnecessary low impedance. The closest I can think of, from my emotional memory, was the ESL amps sounded like older generation ARC tube amps. Analytical, but in a way a lot of people (not me) loved.
I later ended up with Parasound A23's, and then ICEPower based amps and am quite happy. I would love to have a pair of Ayre monoblocks, but Innersound... (shoulder shrug ) I would have to find one on my doorstep to really want to evaluate them again.
Best,
Erik
Edits: 10/04/16Follow Ups:
I went the OPPOSITE way! What a crackup.
I had an ICE based integrated, the PSAudio GCC250 and swapped THAT for a PAIR of the A23 by Parasound. I eventually didn't like the HIGHS as done by the ICE setup.
The Parasound really does WELL with my panels. Next step will be a line-level crossover, probably a MiniDSP.
My 'aspirational' amp? Probably a PAIR of PASS XA30.5
Too much is never enough
Guys, can we keep on topic? I wouldn't ever consider a class D amp. IMHO, they are not ready for prime time. I have heard class D with both the Hypex and B & O modules and the treble almost rips my ears off. I am interested in the Magtech only.
"You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so that when they turn their backs on you, you'll get the chance to put the knife in."
Roger Waters
Wow, Stereo5, under what circumstances did you listen to them? :)
My ICEPower250 ASP's do NOT sound like that at all. I have two speaker pairs I listen to, one based on a ring radiator, the other AMT's. Both flat to past 20 kHz. Well, I think the AMT dips a little. Point is, they have plenty of bandwidth above 20kHz and no one has ever said that about them.
By contrast, I usually feel that way about older Thiel (when it was really Thiel), Triangle and Golden Ear.
Blindfolded I could not tell the difference between these and my Parasound A23s.
Best,
Erik
Sorry.
To say a few words about the Magtech? I heard 'em at the THENewport show for 2 or 3 years. ALWAYS a terrific presentation. The bench amp with the cover off looked Well Constructed and was quite heavy.
The amp being shown with the Sanders 'Stats tells me it has a very robust power supply and is capable of driving some very reacitive loads at low impedances.
Now? How's it sound to YOU? I'm not rich or even 'wealthy' so I can't afford 'em, but if I could, it's on the short list. Magtech and Maggies apparently is a 'good match'.
Too much is never enough
That IS pretty funny. :)
There was a difference though. In both cases I am driving the amps by a Parasound P7. With the PS Audio unit, the amps had some sort of preamp before the amps.
"Naked" the ICEPower 250 ASP amplifier modules to my ears sounded identical to the Parasounds.
I'm sure if I was dealing with that integrated I probably would have ended up in the same place.
ICEPower based amps are usually ridiculously expensive. I got a batch of them super cheap, which is why in my case they were actually far less expensive than the A23.
Best,
Erik
Best,
Erik
The PSAudio integrated used a proprietary 'Gain Cell' as the input section.
When I went the Parasound route, I ALSO got the new P5 preamp.
The 4ohm characteristics of the ICE amp was what I THINK got me. I was never satisfied with the highs. I suspect some interaction with my Maggies. And I messed with setup for a LONG time. Tweeters in/out and pole piece front/back. The frequency rolloff causes phase shift and almost no matter what, I had picket-fencing (audible)
Too much is never enough
I was never satisfied with the highs. I suspect some interaction with my Maggies.
Or, perhaps it is due to the use of boatloads of negative feedback necessitated by switching amps - while John Curl's designs are of the minimal FB design.
From my perspective, that is the Achilles' Heel of switchers.
Well, since almost all switching amps use negative feedback (as do the Sanders amps I'm aware of) that's kind of difficult to prove or disprove.
Also, most amps with zero global feedback still have some local feedback, which is what digital amps use, I believe.
Also, I'm just not convinced negative feedback in and of itself is a bad thing, but buy what you like.
Disconnect the wires to your tweeter and watch it go into oscillation ...
Maybe that's it. My current speakers go to 4 Ohms in the base but around 10 in the treble.
I doubt it is simply impedance which would cause a problem unless it drops to <2.5 ohms.
BUT, what might cause problems is the reaction of the amp to a highly reactive load.
Just a guess.
Too much is never enough
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