|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
76.121.140.58
Hello my compatriots, I've been into Guitars, guitar amps, etc. and car audio for quite a while. So I have a decent knowledge base and ear, but there seems to be ever more snake oil and choices here in HiFi then I'd dare to think of before.
I have largely new speaker array and am looking to upgrade Integrated Amp or Pre Amp Power Amp combo from my 1990s Analog Japan Amps like my Sony and Pioneer, which I'm decently happy with as is (especially compare to Marantz SR5010 which is super sterile). New speaker wire, internal wire, Crossover, Interconnects, Digital Interconnect, Add On Blue Tooth unit (with built in DAC if new amp lacks one), Binding posts, RCA plugs and Hi Def/Res Music player, etc.
I have 5 price range groups for Used Integrated Amps or Pre Amp Power Amp Combos together price wise.
Group #1: $1,200-$800, #2: $750-$600, #3: $550-400, #4: $350 and under.
Ideal range is $800-$250 but left room for an Unit thats head and shoulders above other Units in lower range just in case. 2-5 Amps/Combos per group woud be nice unless there's a definitive clear cut winner in your opinion for what I'm after.
I'll start with the sound qualities in order of importance that I'm after, then some prefered parameters for Amps, etc.
These apply to every part of system as far as desired sound qualities.
Largest, 3D Holographic Sound stage
Musical with rich harmonics that's warm, natural and balanced.
Excells at: Female Voices, all types of Guitars, Strings, Pianos, Horns, Bass Guitar, Ethnic String Instruments, Male Voices, Electronica/Keyboards in that order, especially 1st 5-6 instruments. Drums, etc. not much of a concern.
I listen to a wide variety of music. 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1990s, '00s Rock n Roll, Classic Rock, Blues Rock, Heavy/Prog Rock/Metal like Tool and Alice in Chains, Grunge, Alt Rock, Blues, Soul/RnB/Choirs, Multi National Folk/Ethnic, US-UK-French-Gypsy Jazz, Old and Modern Influenced Balkan and Gypsy Music, some Middle Eastern influenced music, EDM/Pop from Broods and Melanie Martinez to Rihanna, Hip Hop, some Opera/Classic like Katherine Jenkins, Acoustic based music of many types from Katie Melua to Ani DiFranco to Delta Rae. I especially listen to female singers, a lot from the UK and its Crown nations as well as those from the Americas. Just a basis for my tastes.
Conveys emotions very well, a very "Soulful" sound if you will.
Definitely prefer more analog and Tube/Valve type sound to sterile Digital Sound.
Excellent Frequency Respons, example of 15Hz-100KHz.
Good background/black background noise level
Good Transients/Solid Dynamics
1st 4 are main aspects of overall sound, most important to me.
Best possible in my price range, but not over matching my speakers and source material by a large amount, as it would be a waste.
Some brands I've considered are Rega and Roksan.
It will be for USA voltages and use, or if there's other source voltage level units that exceed the USA only units that can be switched or converted easily and cheaply are options as well.
Some specifics about amp I'd prefer it to have, 2nd to sound of course.
Approximately 40-200 Watts RMS, ideal around 60-100 Watts RMS per channel. 8-16 Ohms, if it can handle 4 ohms as well is a bonus.
I would prefer a solid to excellent built in DAC
Or a opinions on Add On Bluetooth Receivers with good built in DAC under $200, prefer used price closer to $100 +/-.
3-5 RCA Inputs not including Phono, prefer if there's 1 on front or a 1/8 or 1/4 inch input on front for Cell/Portable Digital music player. 1-2 RCA Outputs, hopefully 1 Digital Music Signal Input for TV. (I have no idea about Digital Connections or if Digital Optical can be run into standard RCA inputs)
Maybe Tube/Valve Pre Amp section
Would be great if there's at least 1, ideally 3 or 4 remote power on/off female plugs on the back.
Next is Interconnects...
I'm looking at the Belden Microphone Cable and no idea of RCA plugs via PCX, several Audio Quest Cables: Black Mamba II, Evergreen (a few others near price range), Kimber PBJ and Hero, DH Labs, Connex Silver, Pear Cable Cosc and Comice Silver. Maybe a few DIY as well. Most will be 1.5ft in length, 1 or 2 3ft-4ft in length cables.
Either Bluetooth or around 12ft 1/8 inch to RCA or similar cable for Cell Phone/Digital Music and maybe a Hi-Rez/Def Music Player in the future.
Digital/Optical Wire from Smart TV ti stereo, can also send bluetooth signal to Amp I think.
Speaker Wire:
Looking at the popular Vintage Western Electric 16 AWG wire, maybe 14 or 12 AWG with lengths needed and power. Kimber 4VS, QED, Pear Cable. Lengts will be 12-17 feet for each side and will probably Bi Amp my woofers in same cab with 1 of 2 1990s Japan Amps and use old mids and X overs for front woofer and added rear facing Mids. So Options for both, but price is kind of limited with the lengths and my budget.
Next is Internal Cab Wire for each speaker:
There's alot of material, size, jacket, dielectric, etc type wires I'm considering other then regular speaker wire on its own. I'd like to optimize each driver's internal hookup wires. Whether its solid core, stranded, foil, silver, copper, plated copper, gold, etc or plain copper wire. Whatever will optimize each 1 for my desired sound. Tweet are Eton 19SD1, Mids Audax HM100Z0 4" Aerogel, Full Range Coaxial Vintage Alnico Electro Voice 12", 1990s Sony Paper Cone 12" Woofer and maybe 1990s Sony Paper Cone plastic dust cap 4" Mid mounted on back facing wall.
Crossover Parts: I have a price range of $50-150 for each of 2 new Crossovers for all/just the parts. Design likely a Canadian/French or city named kind of after a major Wisconsin City, that doesn't factor into price.
Will be a 3 or 4 way X over.
Coil/Inductor type, Gauge, brand, etc that fits with all other parts and price range.
Capacitors such as Mundorf and the like for desired sound traits.
Resistors, don't know how or if they effect sound, but something of decent quality that gets sound/job done well.
Solder (I prefer WBT Silver with Lead for guitar stuff), wire contact points for board, jumper wires, etc for X Over.
Termination Posts and Cup for Speaker Cab, $20-65 or so for each of 2 Cabs. If my 1/4 plugs as example, solid copper is prefered as base metal for signal.
Power Cables: I have no idea of quality of stock cables, but the IEC Red Copper HD/SD Power Cables from Mercury Magnetics are highly regarded for Guitar Tube amps and other musical gear. Good option or improvement for price over stock cables?
For my level system, is adding a combo filter/surge protector worth while? Maybe Monster Power is decent enough? Does great job for guitar related stuff. Probably around $30-50 +/- range.
Next up is info/input of Portable Hi-Rez/Def Music players... such as PONO, A&K and Sony. There's quite a range in prices, but not much on differences and quality of sound between the brands and models. Just looking for most reliable mostly, ease of use/design, matching similar level of sound quality to my system, memory, expandable memory and cost used. $300-150 range for those above or maybe others I'm not familiar with.
A Bluetooth Receiver for Amp, best quality sound and built in DAC for my system and price, $200-100 or so range used or new.
I know its a bit of a long question/post, but as I said there's a huge array of equipment, wires and snake oil to make entire sense of on my own with limited background in HiFi and want to make use of the knowledge and experience out there so I can get desired results without wasting my time and budget. Answer 1, 2, a few or all questions posed... it will all be considered.
Thanks for your time and help.
Follow Ups:
I've decided to focus my resources more on the DAC and Bluetooth Receiver for my setup over a new amp at this point.
I'm going to go with Anticable L2 speaker wire and their ACElectrum Silver Gold Solid core IC cable with KLE I Pure or Absolute Harmony RCA plugs. They seem to be very highly reviewed and very reasonable prices. I'm also going to get Mercury Magnetics Red Copper SD/Super Duty Power Cables... they come stock with Nema plugs but I'm considering Oyaide and Furutech wall plugs, female IEC plug and IEC receptacle for gear that has IEC, those that don't will be directly connected to MM cable. See how these effect the sound before possibly moving on to a new amplifier.
Any suggestions on wall plugs, female IEC plugs and IEC receptacles to pair with that level/sound of cables and gear? Maybe fuses as well?
Then yet another somewhat murky department for me, Digital Cables... Coax, TosLink (plastic or glass?), ideal performance length, correct type of 75 ohm plugs and fitting? Ideally around or under $150 for each type of DC IC. 1 will be for CD player to DAC, the other will probably be for apt-x Bluetooth Reciever to DAC and or 1 for Optical ouput of LG Smart TV.
For Crossovers I'm sticking with the standard coil n caps type, probably build it from Sonic Craft parts selection of caps, coils and resistors, maybe some from Parts Connexion.
The Anticable also seems like it could be a revelation for patch cables and speaker cab wire for my guitar stuff over the Van den Hul C5 patch cables and VdH scs 12 speaker cable, maybe just add one of the very tough aftermarket outer jackets for wear protection. Kinda excited to see what happens with all of these
Instead of building a crossover and getting into an endless tweak cycle, you MIGHT consider buying something like a MiniDSP. The 2x8 will easily handle 3 OR 4 way speakers and has some features you might not have even considered due thinking they were simply TOO expensive.
Given your music background, I suspect little joy with most SS gear and digital in particular.
Too much is never enough
Those look to be fantastic option for most setups. From what I could gleam from it is that I would need 4 stereo amps or 8 mono amps for a 4 way setup. If the distance was able to be setup much closer together I would definitely go this route, otherwise I would spend a big chunk more on additional speaker wire or interconnects and power related items and cords.
The ability to shift x over points, levels along with the timing and phase improvements would be great.
Any suggestions on brand and types of coils/inductors for highs, mids and lows?
Any input and experiences you've had or are aware of for capacitors and resistors would be appreciated as well.
Tweeters silk dome: sounds I'd like to accentuate smooth, open/airy, detailed with some "chime"/sparkle
Mids Aerogel: sounds I'd like to accentuate musicality, rich harmonics, depth/soundstage, warmth, smooth and definition. (I'm likely to spend the most for caps, etc, in crossover for mids vs the others, up to around $50-$70 for each of 2 caps)
Woofer paper cone: I'd like to accentuate depth, lowest/deepest Hz Octave response, warmth, moderate definition and "punch"
Alnico Full Range: sounds I'd like to accentuate depth of soundstage, warmth/musicality of alnico, mid to treble chime, definition
Learn to wind your own inductors to the ideal shape.
You are entereing an 'infinite' series of experiments. NOBODY can tell you what is 'best'.
More expensive to the point of bankruptcy is EASY. 50$ to 70$ each for caps? Chicken Feed.
The problems with speaker design go up exponentially with the number of 'ways'. If you think you can plan it all on PAPER first, and go right to the Build, I suspect an awful surprise.
You'd probably spend LESS on a line level crossover and multiple amps than you will buying what will certainly be a kings ransom worth of 'Parts'. Besides, you won't need as much power as you might think. Feeding an amp ONLY those frequencies needed for the speaker to which it is connected is a FINE way to conserve amp power. A properly implemented 2-way crossover with a pair of amps gets what amounts to about 3db EXTRA power.
And given that for the very highest frequencies, power required drops quickly, you could even make a 4 way system with 3 amps, and use a conventional crossover between the 2 highest frequency drivers.
What speakers have you heard that you liked? What did you like about them? What did you hear that you DIDN'T like? Why not?
Ever heard a Magnepan Ribbon Tweeter? or a HEIL AMT style? Or perhaps one from the NEO series?
Too much is never enough
Over on the Tube DIY forum there are many seasoned veterans who help people build amps who have far less experience than you.
You'll get far more your money. You probably have most of the parts, anyway. Put your money in a decent pair of OPTs.
I would love to be able to build and customize an entire setup myself, unfortunately between my eyes literally falling apart and ongoing nerve damage in extremities, doing more complicated and involved soldering amd building isn't an option for my these days.
So, sorry for my outburst. Good luck in finding what you want. There are many helpful people, here, who know the commercial audio ins and outs of your price expectations far better than i do.
No worries, I appreciate the sentiment but no need to apologize.
Ok, so far these are the suggestions
Amp: Dynaco VT70, NAD, some vintage gear
DAC: Schiit
Keep the suggestions comin in folks.
Amp/Pre/Power amp is #1,
DAC/Bluetooth is #2,
Still need more of the above and any/more on these below.
Interconnects
Speaker wire internal/external
Crossover Parts/Binding Posts
Thanks
nt
Hi, I'm using the stock Sony Cabs, 2x12, 1x4 mid, 1x 3/4 tweeter. Tweeters are Eton 19SD1, Mids are Audax Aerogel 4" HM100Z0, vintage EV Alnico Full Range Coaxial and Stock Sony 12" Paper Cone Woofer. I'll probably bi amp the Woofer w a mid and use old mid or tweeter with old x over and mount it to the back of cab so it faces the wall to create a bit more air and correct Ohm load for 2nd amp.
Edits: 05/27/16
Go look at some NAD refurbished Integrated amps at spearit sound. They are warrantied and are in your price range.
No association, just a fan of NAD products for their price range.
If the OP wants to and add warmth and put some soul back in the music. The NAD being a good piece of gear is anything but warm!
I also agree with the posting below. Really try to avoid bundling thing with your stereo. ESPECIALLY the DAC. Times do change fast and DAC's have other newer electronics have a funny way of crapping out LONG before your preamp/amp fail years later.
That's an Odd claim IMO.
No I don't currently own such.
But the few I have had owned Were! 'warm' sounding.
Sometimes a bit too much so.
Possibly you have/had strident 'other' gear... as the only explanation I can think of.
Edits: 05/27/16
and punchy.
Opus 33 1/3
My contribution is avoid a built in DAC. The technology is changing rapidly and amps last a very long time, if you choose well.
I'm a Schiit fan. DAC at lots of prices, upgrade options and made in USA.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
Lol
I've decided to focus more on the DAC and Bluetooth Receiver over an amplifier for the time being. New budget for DAC is ballpark of $600,or less used or new. Not concerned with Headphone Amp or Size at all.
The core of my music playing will be Streaming Premium Slacker radio with distant 2nd being the CD player.
Reliability, Imaging, SQ, Natural/Balanced Sound more towards Warm side/Non Sterile fatiguing, ideally 34 bit/386hz?, but 24/196hz is minimum plus all rates between 44hz and 196hz, minimum of 1 coax and 1 TosLink or 2 coax digital inputs, 1 pair of standard unbalanced RCA Analog outputs. Ideally there would be a ADC that up converts up to 196hz but unsure if needed if I run the digital output of Bluetooth Reciever to the DAC.
The DACs I'm looking at are:
-Eastern Electric Minimax Plus
-Rotel RDD-1580
-Benchmark DAC-1
-Meridian Direct DAC
-Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III
-Teac UD-501
-Logitech Transporter 2
-Micromega MyDAC
-Essence Audio HDACC
-Emotiva Stealth DC-1
-Oppo
-Audio gd NFB
-Schiit Bifrost
-Shiit Gungnir
-Gustard DAC X-10/11/12
-iFi Micro
-Light Harmonic Geek
These are the Bluetooth ReceiversI'm considering:
-Audio Engine B1 Premium
-Auris bluME True HD
-Arcam MiniBlink Audiophile
-Yamaha YBA-11
-Bose Bluetooth
-Etekcity NFC/BT 4.0
Input and opinions?
Nt
You may LIKE the tube sound, but if your equipment is on 24/7 or near to that, then you may really prefer some good solid state. Do you like lots of wires around with separates for everything or do you want to keep it simple with a single chassis. That is (or are) the question(s).
Best deals are some vintage solid state that you will pay 1/6th of retail.
Do you have any recommendations on some vintage brands and models I should consider?
Besides the soundstage, anything in particular that's a bit over built with a heavy dose of oversized carbon comp resistors and or Riken or similar?
Not exactly 'vintage', I have a Classe CAP-100 integrated and I always thought I'd want to try a Plinius, for no reason OTHER than I liked the looks. Don't know in your case, lot's of choices used.
The separate amplifiers get a bit heavy and 40 pounds is about my limit.
Hello, I have my gear on the vast majority of time since I work from home at a Guitar/Amp tech and gear consultant for some local bands and musicians, etc.
As much as I'd love an entirely tube setup, SS power amp with tube preamp is the closest feasible option to that. So its that or total SS setup, I'd prefer analog to pure digital though as that's what my ears are tuned for from my 23 years as a musician, tech and electronics guy. Even as a kid, I prefered tubes and vintage gear thanks in large part to ky grandmothers old radios, record lkayers, etc as well as Uncles latev60s to 70s gear too.
I don't care either way about it bring integrated 1 piece amp or multiple components. Extra wires are no problem at all. Its whatever gets the best possible sound in my price range. My new entertainment center was designed so I can do multiple pieces of gear and other electronics or a large integrated amp.
I appreciate your passion for good sound. However your post sounds like you've read just a FEW too many "what you should have" articles.You gotta kick it back a notch and come back to what a stereo really does - makes sweet music!
From the surface I think you need to put a piece of tube gear back into the mix. I recommended the VTA ST-70 amp for several reasons.
1- it is VERY forgiving with cables, wires and even speakers. It blends seamlessly with most gear.
2- the main reason I suggested it is because it can deliver the sound you seem to want. Not a sales pitch!!!!!
3- it will put the the "soul" back in your music
4- you can use a wide variety of output tubes to tailor your sound. I prefer the Gold Lion KT66's.
5 - well in your price range of around $850 with your choice of tubes.
Edits: 05/24/16
Thanks for the input, I'll def keep the Dynaco in mind.
Yes, I've read a lot of reviews and info, but most of the "sound" I like/am after is from my 23 years as a musician, guitar/amp tech, gear consultant, roadie and part time assistantproducer. I've spent thousands of hours trying as many things in person and cataloging my take on the sound on things frombwire, to solder, to tone caps, speaker magnets, pickups, guitar cable, cab design, cab wire like Van Den Hul and Kimber, etc. Just about anything you can think of like Ge or Si diodes, chips, jacks, cryo treatments, tune rolling, vintage NOS and new production tubes in all 8 spots within amp to tailor sound and feel, how far to bias tubes hot or cold, phase balance and split adjustment screws, different Trans from Mercury Magnetics Marstran, Metro, Merren Audio, Classic Tone, Hammond, etc.
That's on top of the thousands of concerts of all types I've been to.
Guitars, guitar amps, and car stereo is nothing that audiophiles find valuable is educating an ear or two. The difference from a musician that is average to one that is a master is the delicacy and ease that the better one brings to the performance...so too in audiophile land. Perhaps the best thing that you can do is to listen to many things and find the kind of sound you like... that pleases you, knowing that this pursuit will lead you to change your opinions as your ears mature.
Thank you for your input and advice. Yes the nuances of a musician can be a big difference, but also greatly depends on the instrument, the music itself and the styles of the group and structure of the band. I think you'd be quite shocked at the amount of detailed listening the musicians do comparing slight and large variations in gear. Diodes, wire, caps, pots, tubes, magnet types as well as how they were made like rough sand cast, bar, slugs, etc, pickup wire type, gauge, finish, coil design, wood types, even glue type and clear coat material.
Both are complex, both strive for great music, but in 85% different way. The 2 keys are still the ear snd signal chain as well as "source" material, 1 is a recording and the other is live instrument.
While I find there's more options in HiFi, I find the complexity of signal chain infinitely more complex.
What actually got me interested in upgrading my home stereo was actually some Focal Aramid Kevlar K2 component speakers... the sound stage and depth of sound they provided was an epiphany of what was becoming possible with new technology and designs.
As I said, I like the base sound of my 1990s Japan Sony Amp, it's warm, natural and has solid depth and emotion, but I'd like a much bigger soundstage, wider, taller, deeper and complex with more rich, complex harmonic sound, bigger extended Frequency response and a bonus would be a sound that's a bit smoother/more fluid and delicate while still maintaining deep, solid, warm, defined bass and bass guitar with decent punch.
Methinks you should look into used Spectral S/S amps, or use a good tube amp and use Spectral or Berkeley Audio Design front ends..--Dennis--
Edits: 05/29/16
I looked into the Spectral gear, looks like very well designed with exceptional build quality, ultra wide Hz response, dynamics, etc.
I've read some reviews, seems there's some concerns with matching speakers so they don't get blown out by that Hz range, any suggestions on managing that aspect?
Any suggestions on a S/S power amp to pair with either brand pre amps?
Or somewhat similar gear that's a little less expensive? The newer Spectral gear is definitely something I'd like to move towards in 4-5 years, once I've heard in person at some point of course.
Thanks for the input
Be careful with the Spectral gear as I think manufacturer recommends much of its gear be used in an all Spectral system with MIT cables. Other cables may even void the warranty. I know subject has been covered in other threads and others are far more qualified to comment but just be sure to investigate the subject if you pursue Spectral.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: