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First, hello all. Glad to be apart of the community and looking forward to learning and sharing with you all. Secondly, my question is relatively simple. I'm looking into getting an amp for my system. Speakers are Martin Logan motion 12. Rated at 20-300 watts at 4, 6 or 8 ohms. Right now I'm using my old yamaha rx-v2400 but am wanting to get an amp. I want enough power on tap to avoid clipping and to allow for transient spikes as necessary. I am from the day where speakers were just rated at a particular impedance and RMS power was clearly identified. Then I've read that as long as the impedance is matched I should overpower by 2.5 times the RMS of the speakers? I guess my speakers are rated at 150 RMS? So 375 is good? Could they handle more? I've seen some guys throwing triple and even quadruple the power at their speakers. It's been a while and I'm just confused. Any info would be warmly welcomed!
Follow Ups:
I had some MLs for ten years until a few years ago. I loved them, but what surprised me was which amplifiers allowed them to sound great.
Your posts interests me in particular, because I also had a Yamaha RVX-2400 for a while (when I used to have surround sound).
The amplifier on board of the 2400 was never going to drop my (or anyone's) jaw.
I tried the MLs (Aeon i model) with a Denon AVR-4808R (better, but still a bit dull). A Musical Fidelity A300 brought them to life. Upgrading to a Plinius 9200 took away a lot of that solid state 'clang'. But a Cambridge 840a turned-out to be the best of the solid state options I tried by a country mile. It was dynamic, detailed, a little warmer than the others, and it also had a surprisingly airy presentation.
So I'll limit my comments to:
Buy used if you're comfortable with that, your money goes much further.
Consider Class D as a viable option as there's plenty of good, clean power there.
Make sure your new amp will co-exist harmoniously with your pre.
Have fun with the decision making!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Welcome! bonzobasher-
Classe' is a very nice sonic match for ML loudspeakers.
Watt ratings mean little to nothing. My JBL 2440s are rated to 120 spl, not that I'd ever want to play them that loud.Your speakers are rated at 92db and 4 ohms. It's a nasty load, so you want an amp that double down at 4 ohms and it'd be nice to double again at 2 ohms. My old Classe DR-9 will do that though most measurements show it to be a 150 watt amp rather than it's 100 wpc rating, but it doubles down to 400 wpc at 2 ohms. Parasound sounds like a good recommendation. A McCormack DNA-125 might fit the bill too.
If you buy used gear, then you can always sell it for close to what you paid and try something else.
-Rod
Edits: 04/18/15
Speakers don't have watts. Let sanity rule when turning it UP. Listen for distortion and than turn it DOWN. Dynamic drivers (cone) will get hot after some time with high power and than perform worse.
Too much is never enough
Welcome to the Asylum!
You can spend a lot of money on a power amplifier with the power at which you are interested. What is your budget?
I can't afford the real expensive amplifiers myself, but I found an excellent reasonably priced solid state power amplifier for my low 3-ohm impedance Thiel CS3.7 speakers. It is the Parasound Halo A21 rated at 250-wpc into 8-ohms and 400-wpc into 4-ohms. I measured it at 1000-Hz with a test CD containing tone bursts so as not to damage my speakers. This allowed me send short bursts of power not to exceed an average level greater than one-twentieth the power of each tone burst. The Parasound Halo A21 just began clipping at 50-volts RMS into the 3.3-ohm impedance of my Thiels at 1000-Hz. That equates to just over 750-wpc RMS at 1000-Hz. I had to wear ear plugs for this test, but surprisingly I did not hear the slightest distortion from my speakers. I tried another toneburst test at 400-Hz, but the speakers began to distort around 550-wpc RMS with no visible clipping from the amplifier. Anyway, I really like the sound of my Parasound Halo A21 and I have no plans to replace it even if I could afford a more expensive amplifier.
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400-Hz Toneburst ........................................................ 1000-Hz Toneburst
.....
Wow! Nice speakers! Unfortunately, my budget these days is more mid fi than hi fi so I'm limited to 1000 dollars. I've been looking into the emotiva products which seem to get good reviews from their users. I was thinking of a pair of xpa100 Monoblocks at 250 at 8 ohms and 400 at 4 ohm respectively. Then there is the xpa 2 which puts out 300 at 8 ohms and 500 at 4 ohms. Not sure if that's too much for my speakers. Again, I've been reading that I should worry less about to much power?
The XPA-2 is a great amp and has plenty of grunt to drive those speakers. Plus I've heard it plays in Class A mode for the 1st 50 watts or so. However, the XPA-100s are very good amps, too, and you'll get the benefits of monoblock construction - no crosstalk between channels.
Honestly, either model will provide you with more than enough clean power and both come with 5 years warranties. If I were making the purchase, I would probably go with the XPA-100s - less weight to lug around and the $100 savings is nothing to sneeze at. Additionally, the XPA-100s offer 60,000 uf of capacitance per channel (total of 120,000 for 2 channels) where the XPA-2 offers 45,000 uf for both channels. This means that the XPA-100s have *enormous* reserve power available for sustained transients.
Either way, you have 2 great choices here...
-RW-
Most of the time, you'll never listen above 80 to 90 db. Otherwise, you'll be as hard of hearing as my ex-Marine son-in-law that got the 50 cal machine gun as his job.Often, the lower rated amps that stay in Class A for lower outputs do sound better. Your speakers and room will give out far before you get to 300 watts.
-Rod
Edits: 04/18/15
The ML 12s that you have are listed on Logan's site as a 4 ohm nominal load and 92db efficiency. I did not see any test results of that load rating to know how much lower than 4 ohms they may go. My own experiences with Thiel CS3.6 and many other 4 ohm rated speakers is that they will and do often dip below 4 ohms and that becomes the Achilles heel of many amps. Unstable below 4 ohms leads to possible amp or speaker damage in some cases.
My opinion and many others is this: To much clean power is far less dangerous than to little power. Clean power in reserve covers the dynamic swings and keeps the amp out of the "clipping" range. Clipping will destroy speakers and can hurt the amp as well. That said, I like they way your thinking with the Emotiva monos or stereo amps. They spec out pretty strongly at 8 and 4 ohms with almost double the power into 4 ohms. (a good sign)
Mono block amps are a blast to have for many reasons (I had many) but keep in mind the need for two outlets (1 duplex) dedicated to the amps alone! You're not going to plug big monos into a power strip and get the maximum from them unless you have a non-limiting power distribution system. Then there's all the other stuff you have looking for outlets. See, monos are fun but come with criteria. The XPA-2 on the other hand needs just one wall socket and the rest of the gear can run off a distribution network.
92db doesn't scream the need for massive power to play fairly loud but your own playback habits determine the need for headroom. If you like it dynamic and live then yes, you need a substantial amount of power and both of your examples would suffice short of a rock concert in your room. Your speakers don't appear to me that concert levels are your goal but rather good sound. Maybe loud at times but not AC/DC or The Who live.
Yes Cruz. You hit it on the head. I like to listen loud at times but not to crazy and not for long. Quality sound is important to me. Thank you everyone for your assistance. It's not only educational for me but making me feel better about my purchasing decisions.
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