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According to the Reno HiFi website the Pass .5 series amps will be discontinued September 1st and the .8 series will have a price increase making them even more expensive. This leaves a large hole at the bottom of their price point ... think they will introduce a new series that will be more affordable or are they just going down the dead end of uber-high end pricing? Their First Watt offerings are not suitable for the general market so I see a gap in their product line.
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Used 'A.5' amps will be a relative BARGAIN for the next decade.
Too much is never enough
Absolutely! pictureguy.
Bargain? I wonder. I hate to hear this, I had planned on maybe moving to a .8 in the future when I freed up some money. Now if the .8 is too far out of reach I'll be hanging on to my x250. So I wonder if .5 owners will feel the same and hold on to them. Coda who is the other Threshold folks is out there but to me they sound more like Threshold then my current Pass amp, just an observation, both good amps. My friend has some big Coda CVX's that I think sound really good. Never done side by side, I'm not so enthused about lugging a 100 pound amp around. :)
I also have a Stasis in another system.
CODA is good stuff :-)
Vbr,
Sam
I should have emphasized RELATIVE.
Everyone chooses a bang / buck / benefit sweet spot.
Me? I can't even afford the USED pair of XA30.5 I'd have in an INSTANT to biamp my panels.
The .5 series maybe enough better than the originals to warrant the upgrade??? I suspect so, but don't have enough info to make the 'best' case.
The .5s might be the NEW sweet spot.
Too much is never enough
The used .5 may indeed turn out to be the sweet spot for the "regular folk" like us. Without having heard actual comparisons I think I would rather have a used xa60.5 monoblock pair than the xa30.8 stereo model for roughly similar prices. I might also favor the used xa100.5 pair over the newer xa60.8 for a similar price. And so on.
At least there are plenty of good choices in the middle price points. Just not a whole lot at the low price point.
In the meantime I am utterly satisfied with my x250.5 and don't see the need to upgrade anytime soon.
Right On!
any time we can buy a used/demo piece, it is a "sweet spot".
I don't see why Pass Labs should necessarily worry about lower priced gear. The old Alfred Sloan idea of "start 'em with Chevy, move 'em up to Oldsmobile and then to Cadillac" needn't apply to audio; it's not like you have to bring the customer into a Pass-only dealership like you did with cars back in the day. People will move from other brands to Pass when they upgrade: I myself just did.
Happy listening,
Jim
"The passage of my life is measured out in shirts."
- Brian Eno
True, but my point is that for Pass, they are a long way from the $2300 super bargain Aleph 3 that got a lot of their loyal customers attention in the first place. Nelson's Threshold company also had Forte, which was entry level (my first true high end electronics purchase was a Forte preamp back in the day).
But I realize it is a very different market now that it was back then. It's more a commentary on the state of the high end going down the path of the uber expensive. Not just Pass. At least with Pass, the performance of the products justifies it a little bit more, in relation to their competition anyway.
Thanks! for sharing.
Interesting times indeed.
Well I replaced a $30,000 Wavac SET with the XA30.8 which right now cost $6,500. I came out really ahead on this change and even after nearly 6 months I am still thrilled with the sound of this incredible amp. By the way the .8 amps are a lot more powerful than there power rating.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
I am a new owner of an XA30.8 as well...Thrilled too. I'll have my own take soon. Btw jnr, I thought you were right on.Everyone that is concerned about "entry-level" should be looking at the used and demo deals on XA.5 series amps. The XA30.5 was my SS reference. It is still a great amp.
Edits: 04/09/15
about the used .5's becoming the "entry level" in their lineup. Pass amps tend to last a very long time. I predict that the 30.5 will become a classic in the years to come.
As I observed yesterday, my '81 Stasis (Threshold was Nelson's first company) remains in daily service in the garage. :)
I concur- those older Threshold and Parasound power amps, still sound outstanding!
Is there much to be gained from the .8 series over the .5 ? I like the new styling but what's your take on the sound?I had the X-150 and then the X-150.5 and thought they were both very good. The X150.5 was a little smoother. I have not heard the latest .8 amps.
Edits: 04/09/15
In part 3 of my review at Dagogo I said that Pass made a mistake not giving these amps a whole new name not just chinging .5 to .8. Indeed this is a whole new amp in every way. Heck it weighs nearly 30 pounds more. I liked the .5s but didn't think they were in the same league with a world class tube amp. The .8 was surely a big shock to me. I haven't owned a transistor amp in my main system in over 30 years.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
Abe, the two sound different. I'm trying to subjectively quantify that difference now, but they not the same animal. For one, the .8's noise floor is practically non-existent...I don't want to let all the cats claw outta the bag yet... I will say, there is still much to love about the 30.5 (and the INT-30A, but the 30.8 is not going anywhere, and it is NOT a review unit.
Edits: 04/09/15
consists of nine folks, it really doesn't make sense to maintain effectively duplicate product lines. This isn't Sony.
Production Team
Speaking of the point 8 series in 2013:
" Pass Laboratories celebrates its twenty-second year by presenting the best amplifiers we have ever made. If you have heard the qualities of the highly acclaimed Xs series of amplifiers you will have had taste of what we offer here amplifiers that bridge the gap between measured performance and subjective experience. "
They learned how to make better. There's plenty of the older units available on the used market and they should be good for many years to come. My 1981 Threshold Stasis has been in daily service since then and I've only (proactively) replaced the big Mallory power supply caps and some fuses.
Of course we always knew the x.5 would go away when the x.8 was released. And I didn't mean to suggest they should introduce an entire new lineup in parallel with the .8 models, but now their least expensive amplifier sits at $6750 and they have only 2 available below 10 Grand (!). I would recommend at least one entry point model somewhere south of $5000 if they want to cultivate future business by planting seeds. But who knows, perhaps Nelson Pass is content with simply playing in the cost-no-object sphere and does not worry himself with marketing concerns anymore (presuming he is still running the show there).
So true- but, Pass Labs is the best SS at the moment.
Well he does make the First Watt line.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
.
What to make of this? The X.5 series was plenty expensive for a lot of folks and the X.8 prohibitive. I have a X150.5 which I could only afford used.
But I don't think the American small-run makers really care about the middle market anymore; up-market allows higher margins that afford good profits despite small sales volume.
Also there might be a little of the demand boost that super luxury goods have long provided. That is higher price = more prestige for buyers = more sales.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich
True, they don't care much about the American market in general anymore and prefer to focus on the more lucrative Asian market especially. They readily admit this. I wonder where this will all lead in the long run.
30.8 is still high value when you see what else is out there.
And I'm totally happy with the Aleph 3 I picked up for $1,100 a few years back.
If you have to have the very best, it's well within reach for much cheaper than anything solid state but spectral.
And as others have said, just go down to 30.5, or even lower down the used chain!
fight the good fight
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