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I've got an EAR 868 which is the most rocking preamp I've had in my system. But it just seems that as you dial up the snr, you lose the emotion of the music. I used to have a nice horn set-up but, even then, I sometimes/often valued my college Yamaha set-up over that. Not sure if it's euphoric recall, a lack of banned substances in my diet, or what.
By rock, I mean The Kinks, Van Halen, Beastie Boys, Hendrix, The Who and such.
Follow Ups:
...resents that blanket accusation. You should try one in your rig if you get a chance (I have horns as well, and rock is about 80% of my listening diet).
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
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Thanks! for sharing Abe.
I would like to hear about any difference(s) between the CJ CT-5 & ET-5 ?
It's an oldie and it's solid state, but my SAE Mark 1B preamp does wonders with rock and the like. (once recapped...)
a great preamp flying under the radar iMHO
Thanks! for sharing.
I have heard EAR products many times. The EAR distributor is in Long Beach. There is a reason he always plays Jazz at the shows.
Hi i have a question
As you have identified the problem in the tube preamp have you tried another preamp just to verify that the preamp is indeed the problem ?
Personally i do not think so, but if you have got better sound with another preamp it could be
Very interesting 3D. Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
then in my opinion it is not doing its job as a preamplifier. It needs to get out of the way of the music. Either the pre is not doing its job, or else you might want to take a look at the synergy between amp and speakers.
Just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
Boy I dunno about that tagline; I get incredible dynamics from my Audio Note M3 phono. That is actually one of the things that I initially noticed when I first put it into the system. Lots more jump; percussion sounded more physical; acoustic guitar never sounded so alive. This coming from an ARC SP9 MkIII pre, which was no slouch in this department! Previously I'd cycled thru a number of the usual suspects in vintage equipment such as an SX-1250, Marantz 1060, Kenwood 600 integrated, Marantz 2325 (all of which still have a near & dear place in my heart).
a tiny enclosure/capsule.
I liked the original version of the Strada (not familiar with the"2"), but otherwise would consider the Strada to be about as Rock/Boogie worthy as a pair of Quad ESL's.
I heard the Strada's with Gallo subs (TR2's I think) and was also impressed with the subs (tight/fast/my taste in subs).
....some speakers are physically challenged when it comes to dynamics.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
In fact, they are *very* good speakers. But you can only ask so much of such a diminutive speaker/enclosure as the only transducers. However, if his Stradas are accompanied by a fast, powerful subwoofer or two, he should have no trouble playing rock music....
-RW-
My VAC gear plays rock with all the dynamics required.
No issues with my VAC Pre from the 90s along with it's accompanying Counterpoint Hybrid amp.
The more you turn it up, the better it gets.
My Atma-sphere gear plays Rock effortlessly!
get DJ loudspeakers, or something, and associated equipment. One size does not fit all ;-)
I still wonder what a powered subwoofer would do for my system??
The only way around that for me is with two systems. A YBA preamp/amp for jazz/ female vocals and a Krell amp for rock/blues. I just change the interconnects from one amp to the other. The Krell does jazz better than the YBA does rock. This is all relative because I live in a NYC apartment so I have to keep the volume rational most of the time.
Edits: 07/21/14
No, not your music selections. I am referring to the quality of recordings and compression. My guess is the EAR is giving you a more accurate look at the software limitations.
Of course we've heard this before. Certain genres work better with X v Y. I think it is a bad generalization. I agree with Mike on recording quality and compression. Revealing more might have a down side. But in the end it all works down to synergy between EVERY piece of gear from AC delivery, recording all the gear and cables and finally the speakers.
ET
True with both LPs and CDs?
Good lp's sound really good. I really need to start digitizing my vinyl for those times where I'm too lazy to play them. I've got an Auralic Vega DAC. I had a audiophile friend over for a listen. We listened to a bunch of digital and then some vinyl. I think his line was "Why do you ever not play vinyl? This isn't even close".
One of my contentions is that digital was predicated on "nice" music. Classical string quartets and such which are predominately sine waves. Rock is a very different animal. Electric guitars have an inherent distortion which most DACs want to suppress or ignore in their waveshaping algorithms. Being in business for many decades, my punk and garage band players and customers hated digital. The constant quote I heard was that it didn't pound like my ax.....To a man, they prefered vinyl.
You may be hearing the combined effects of the AD conversions and your DAC.
Another generally 'polite' set of preamps can be had from CJ. They sound wonderful but wouldn't be my first choice for a rock'n good time. If you want the polar opposite in dynamic slam factor you might look to Krell.
Also, I'm not sure if you're still running your First Watt J2 as described in your profile but here again is a good example of a smooth but not very rock'n amp, IMHO.
If you want to rock you want great dynamics and for that you want a decent amount of power, headroom, and a lively linestage.
P.S. My EAR 834P phono wasn't the most dynamic, extended, or transparent. With it's midrange emphasis it was addicting and smooth but not my first choice for rock, unless you wanted to smooth out the edge and brightness from early CDs. Similarly my Pass Aleph 3 and Aleph 30 were smooth but lacked dynamics for most of my rock.
A nice combo would be the hugely dynamic and robust sounding Cary SLP-05 tube linestage coupled to a hefty power amp like a Pass X250/X250.5. That would be magic! I know, 'cuz I had the SLP-05 and the smaller Pass X150.5.
> > P.S. My EAR 834P phono wasn't the most dynamic, extended, or transparent. With it's midrange emphasis it was addicting and smooth but not my first choice for rock, unless you wanted to smooth out the edge and brightness from early CDs.
Abe, just curious how you used your 834P to smooth out the edge and brightness of your CDs. ;-)
Abe, just curious how you used your 834P to smooth out the edge and brightness of your CDs.
Good point! I suppose if you could play CDs through it, the EAR would certainly smooth them out. But you can't, so it was obviously a brain fart my end. Good catch!
Abe-
I found the CJ Act2 Series 2 to play Rock well.
Thanks for the suggestion! I still have the J2 mated to the EAR 868. A good friend has some Pass mono blocs. I think I need to check those out. In the past, I've had Cary cdp's which I really liked and their SLP-98 preamp which I wasn't all that fond of. I've liked their cdp's precisely because of their dynamics. The preamp I had wasn't too dynamic. I guess I should try to arrange a demo of the SLP-05.
Another friend has the Job225 which sounds quite amazing. OK, it seems like I'm on the verge of another major system change.
I am an 868 PL owner myself although I admit that I am not much of a rock fan but I have sympathy for what you say.
If you are running it with the original EAR branded tubes then I would say that although they are very good they may not be the best for rock music. I found them a little rolled off at the top with a generous mid-bass but with a soft texture not suited to the driving bass of rock music.
As with things be-tubed part of the sound that you get is that of the tubes themselves. The 868 can be run on both PCC88 and ECC88 dual triodes ( 6DJ8 or 7DJ8). Just don't mix them. NOS PCC88s tend to be more plentiful and cheaper these days. I have compared both varieties from the same manufacturer in the 868 and cannot tell them apart.
Try some NOS Tungsrams which are very good and easy to find. If you can locate them then even better ( open and extended , solid bass) are PCC88s from Telefunken. Unfortunately they are hen's teeth these days.
As the EAR 868 has inherently great timing it should be excellent if properly fettled (have you the phonostage equipped PL version?). If you don't find this ultimately then it may be that SS is the path for you.
Yeah, I've got Telefunken PCC88s which I paid up for.
If you want to hear rock properly you need to own components that are suited to that genre.
OK, so suggestions? I really want to stay with a tubed preamp.
Keep the pre but you needs lots of amplifier watts and big, sensitive speakers with high power handling. You might not get all this plus the things you already love about what you've got now...in one system.
May I suggest some big powered speakers that you can hook up to your pre when you get the urge to rock? The biggest, baddest, most expensive powered studio monitors you can afford (although you could use smaller ones with 8" woofers if your room is small enough). Depending on what you get, you may enjoy these for all music, not just rock. It is rare that you can get a good demo in retailers that sell this equipment, so a great return policy is mandatory. You also might need additional room treatments.
Jeagle, my Conrad-Johnson CT 5 jumps, boogies and slams with the best solid state preamps. It's no longer in production but has successors just as good or better. The CT 5 was justly known for its slam. I havent heard its successors but the reviews are very complimentary. Prior to the CT 5 C-J was known for being a bit soft and romantic. Used newer models are reasonably priced when available. The C-J people are good to deal with.
Edits: 07/20/14
This is not your Father's CJ...my musical tastes are all over the board, but includes rock music...this CJ IMHO rocks just fine...If I covered up this preamp and had Audiophile come listen, I would guess 9 out of 10 would think it was a really good solid state preamp...it has just a hint of tube warmth...
Just my $.02...
thanks
Mark
OK, ok. In the past I've been pretty dismissive of the CJ gear. But it sounds like I really need to check out the CT-5.
When CJ was using 6N30P super tube, (I do not like that term), the Act1 and 2, CT-5 and CT-3 are very different sounding than all the models that use the 6922.
I did a side by side with CT-5 verses the CJ 16LS2,(6922 tube), both these preamps are one step down from the references for those lines.
The CT-5 was faster, with more detail, more forward and very neutral top to bottom...
The 16LS2 was warmer, more midrange tube bloom, (which I like), very smooth sounding and rounder rolled off presentation...really nice on acoustic instruments and female vocals...
My friend like the 16LS, I preferred the CT-5; they are cut from the same cloth, but are quite different...
Don't just take my word for it, many reviews echo what I have described...CJ's website has links to these reviews...
Good luck, allot of good choices out there...
thanks
Mark
Every CJ tube piece I ever heard was 'polite' or 'soft', very nice for vocals, sleepy time lullabies, smooth jazz and such, but they couldn't rock. But I admit that I haven't heard a recent CJ.
The 'sleeper' CJ IMHO was the solid-state PF-R linestage. That one really boogied! I liked it's liveliness better than the 'higher-end' solid-state Premier 18LS.
Abe, I think you are exactly right about the PFR (I also had the EF1 phono preamp). I had one for about 10-15 years and constantly listened to higher end gear that wasnt as clean, clear, absolutely neutral and nearly as quick as that PFR. C-J tells me that people are still looking for that unit.
The only reason I sold my PF-R was because the remote control for the volume knob was a bit too twitchy for me. I would always overshoot or undershoot my desired volume level when using the remote. It was otherwise a fantastic linestage.
So, it seems that I have to stop being lazy and listen to more vinyl. Easier said than done.
I'm also going to explore a more powerful amp. Several friends have some nice top-of-the-foodchain ss amps that they'd likely let me borrow.
I'm also quite intrigued by the active speaker recommendation. I had some ATCs in the past (their pro monitors), but I think I didn't have them configured properly with my upstream components. The Barefoot actives seems to get unambiguous praise in the pro circles. For a bit, I had almost all pro gear. Metric Halo LIO-8 AD/DA into some ATC actives. Stunning clarity, but lacking in some other areas.
I also likely need to check out some JBLs.
Many thanks for all the suggestions and helping me to reduce the search space.
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