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In Reply to: RE: Buy an Audio research SP10 - SP15? posted by pepedrm on October 15, 2007 at 09:14:22
Photos: Top is the Audio Research SP10 and next is ARC SP15. Both have the power supply in a separate chassis
pepedrm,
I have used an Audio Research SP8 since 1985 and an SP10 since 1987. Those two preamplifers are different in many ways, but I feel the mid to late 80's all-tube preamplifers are among the best ever made. In the last 20 years, I have found only two other preamps I like as well as the SP10 for phono and only three line stages I like as well as the SP8.
The SP10 is just an astonishing phono preamplifier, amazing deeply detailed and natural sound with palpable 3-D soundstage as well as dynamic and transparent- I never tire listening to it. The SP8 is a "friendlier" sound, a bit more liquid and sweeter.
I would recommend anyone serious about phono reproduction to have an SP10- but with the warning that the tubes must be very, very good. The SP10 phono gain of 74dB is among the highest and the tubes must be very quiet, non-microphonic, and very strong to take the higher current. Today, only the most rugged E88CC and NOS E188CC will survive well. That said, if you can find carefully selected EH 6922 the sound will be just fine and the addition of 4 super NOS Amperex E188CC- 2 as the first phono stage and 2 as the first line stage- can make an amazing sound. In my SP10, I'm planning to use 4 Amperex E188CC as described and the other 8 tubes will be NOS Tungsram E88CC.
The SP8 as I say is a wonderful preamplifier too- more "forgiving" of the qualities of the sources than the SP10 and the ECC83 (12AX7) is much easier to find and offers an evern wider range of subtle sound qualities- and for less money. I'm planning to change my SP8 to a pair of Siemens tyriple mica E83CC for phono and the line stage tubes will be triple mica black plate Sylvania 5751s.
I have not spent a lot of time with the SP15, but my memory of the sound is that it is a more "forward" and somewhat drier sound than the SP10 and I would actually recommend an SP8 above the SP15. The SP15 does everything well, has good controls, and the amazing Audio Research quality of construction, but for me the sound is too "solid state", whereas the SP10 has the perfect balance of liquidity / smoothness and detail. There are by the way, only 3 tubes in the SP15 as compared to 17 in the SP10 and I've found that I always prefer the Audio Research designs with more tubes- and tube power supplies seem to appeal especially! The appearance of the SP10, SP11, and SP15 makes these seem similar but they are quite different.
Write again and let us know what you decide to buy. Certainly, I feel an SP10 purchase is a lifetime, "ultimate" choice. More fuss, because of the tube situation, but just an amazing phono preamp when in good order.
Cheers,
Bambi B
[Audio Research: SP8, SP10, LS3, D115, D130] [SP10 / D115 system: Turntable in the SP10 system is Oracle Delphi III with an SME V arm and Audioquest 200 cartridge, Vandersteen 2C speakers, Audioquest King Cobra interconnects, Kimber 4TC speaker cables]
Follow Ups:
Hello Again.
Finally i buy the SP10. It takes me too long to have a decision, but i finally was in love with this machine and bought it last friday.
The only thing is that when i tried today to turn it on (the first time i hav hade time...) , there was a very loud sound in the speakers, and the gain switch doesnŽt seem to work (not control the volume). And when i play vinyl or cd, the music is very loud and i canŽt control it.DoesnŽt know what happend, in the shop was perfect.
As i told before iŽm using a krell kav 400 as a power amp, and i think iŽm not conectig the cables in the right side, and may be i have press any switch i shouldnŽt in the sp10.
Can anybody tell me where each cable goes?
IŽm using a turntable (phono cable), a cd player an a power amp.
Yes, i know i can wait tomorrow yo ask my dealer, but I CANŽT WAIT, suppose you understand me. :-).
Many thanks again
In Reply to: RE: Buy an Audio research SP10 - SP15? posted by Bambi.
Hello bambi.
Thanks for the long and complete answer!!
IŽll try if possible to probe the SP10 this week or next.
A shop near home (the shop wich possible sell it to me) told me this morning to make a prove with it an a Viola Symphony(he want to sell me it too..but doesnŽt know iŽll be totally poor if buy SP10)
I have discovered vinyls two years ago and i love then. Fortunately I inherited a good vinyl collection from my grandfather, and had the opportunity to buy a great vinyl system in the second hand market and in mint condition.
If you say the SP10 is better than SP15 in phono, so the SP10 must be fantastic.IŽll try to probe my frien SP15 too in the shop, but donŽt know if iŽll be able to probe with my krell.
I,ve never think about an SP11 because i think is the same in phono than SP15 (donŽt know differences in line).
IS it good the SP11?
Thank you very much for the information.
If i finally buy it, iŽd like to keep contact to you throught this forum to ask more things about valves if you donŽt mine.
Thanks again.
Best regards pepedrm
PHOTO: the Audio Research SP11
pepdrm,
As I mentioned, I have not spent a lot of time with the SP15, probably only three hearings in the shop, but for me there was no contest with the SP10.
Something else to remember about the SP10 also is the amazing phono controls: two phono inputs, switchable cartridge loading right on the front panel, and the "bypass" switch that takes all controls out of the signal path when in phono. I use bothe an OPracleII/SMEV for LPs and a Dual 1019 with a Grado 78 cartridge for 78's and the SP10 wiht the the two inputs, mono switch, and cartrdge loading makes this wonderfully easy- and gives a superb sound.
On two occasions- this is 1987, I and two people from my office heard the SP8/II, SP9/I, SP10/II, and SP11/I in single blind testing- the dealer knew which model was paying, we did not- at the Audio Research dealer at the moment when all four were available new. Within a few seconds we all hated the SP9/I, and mostly agreed on the other three as well, and all three of us bought SP10s. The SP9 actually became a reasonably good preamp as a MKIII, but when heard next to an SP8 and SP10, there was again no contest.
The SP11 has always intrigued me as I always really like it- but only for the first 10 minutes- and then I find myself searching for defects in the sound. With the SP8 and SP10, there are aspects that are not perfect, but whne I hear either of them I only think about the music, and that is my sign of a great piece of audio gear- it's a medium to music rather than a commodity fetish. The SP11/II I would still prefer to the SP15 and again it may be due in part to the SP11 having 6- E88CC and the SP15 having 3. The earlier Audio Research hybrids I find hard, dry, and lifeless and in my vierw the worst components ever made by ARC were the SP9/I and the D125 amplifier. The SP11 is quite refined and does several things really well, I love the transparency and nimble bass, but it is so "enthusiastic" for detail and so "fast" and a bit dry, that I find it fatiguing after awhile- I lose interest in listening more. With the SP8 and SP10, I tend to listen to LP after LP for hours. However, with a superb turntable, great NOS tubes, and sympathetic cartridge, an SP11/II is probably just fine and I imagine that tubes for an SP11 and SP15 would be easier than for the SP10.
If it's not too personal a question, for reference, can you say what the prices of the SP15 and SP10 are? I know the prices in Europe are usually more because of rarity and taxes. My theme in this question is to show though that the best audio equipment is a good investment. In the US, good used SP10s will probably soon equal their cost when new. This has happened with the SP8 and given current prices, I calculate that I've enjoyed one of the best preamplifers for 22 years for about $12 per year- $1 per month! The SP10 has cost in effect- repairs, tubes, depreciation ($3,600 to about $3,100) about $800 over 20 years or about $40 per year.
Yes, please stay in touch with us as you make your choices! Certainly if you can try the SP15 in your system and compare it to the SP10, I would enjoy your opinion- I've never had the opportunity to hear them in that way.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Hello everybody.
I have just been in the shop this evening.
The equip
Audio research SP15
Audio research SP0
Power amp threshold
A simply project turntable...
B&w 805 Speakers
Well, what can i say?
The two pre amps are like tanks, perfect construction.
Great differents between then.
The Sp15 is quite more open an detail, iŽve been surprise with it.
The Sp10 is more slow and close sound, but great too.
Talking with the shop dealer he told me may be ths SP10 is thougt for other type of power amp and speakers, but i thought, to my mind, the Sp10 was going to be more great pre amplifier in phono.
They only have been use in phono, no in line.
Other question is the price, 2500 SP15 and 3500 SP10, is a important difference.
I have ask to have 10-14 days to think about it.
Well, that have been my impression.
What do you thing about it?
Thanks.
Hello again Bambi.
After speaking today with the shop IŽll can probe the system next week, on tuesday, and probably iŽll do it with my krell, no problem to take it to the shop.
Here is very difficulto see Sp10 SP11 or SP15.
The last SP10 I see was on ebay with the option buy it now at 2.995,00 , and it was sold in two hours (i know it because i see it and send a mail to the seller, but he wasnŽt able to answer because it was sold before). The one iŽm goin to see itŽs abit more expensive, but iŽll try to down the price.
Here in Europe prices are bigger, the audio research h220 wich is actual model, i thinŽk is 6000 USD and here is sold at 12000 , and today one is 1,40 usd.
As i told you iŽll probe the SP10 ans SP15, and iŽll tell if i have bought one, wich one, an why i bought it.
The seller told me too no problem with the valves, they can been buying to audio research...but if i finally buy it iŽll ask here what valves buy and where.
Thanks again.
IŽll write you (and everybody) as soon as i have news, an i hope to tell you i have and audio research.
Regards.
pepedrm
Hello everybody.
I have just been in the shop this evening.
The equip
Audio research SP15
Audio research SP0
Power amp threshold
A simply project turntable...
B&w 805 Speakers
Well, what can i say?
The two pre amps are like tanks, perfect construction.
Great differents between then.
The Sp15 is quite more open an detail, iŽve been surprise with it.
The Sp10 is more slow and close sound, but great too.
Talking with the shop dealer he told me may be ths SP10 is thougt for other type of power amp and speakers, but i thought, to my mind, the Sp10 was going to be more great pre amplifier in phono.
They only have been use in phono, no in line.
Other question is the price, 2500 SP15 and 3500 SP10, is a important difference.
I have ask to have 10-14 days to think about it.
Well, that have been my impression.
What do you thing about it?
Thanks.
Hi:
How about the ARC SP-11 MK-II? Thanks.
Regards,
Mike
Well i donŽt know anybody whi sell it...
Bambi wrote:
In the last 20 years, I have found only two other preamps I like as well as the SP10 for phono and only three line stages I like as well as the SP8.
Don't want to hijack, but I also own an SP8 and am very curious which three line stages you liked as well.
Feel free to PM or email.
Thank you!
I have an SP-10. I almost never use it
My cousin bought it new. I bought it from him and a couplk eyears ago i shipped it off to Audio Research and had a couple minor things fixed, and ha dit re-tubed, cleaned etc.
I'm thinking of selling it,...along with my D-100 amp, and my 4-5 time used Music Hall MMF-7 turn-table with Grado Sonatta cartridge.
Any advice on pricing or where to list is greatly appreciated.
I am in the market for a mint SP10 with the right service history. I have a PT Anniversay deck and EAR 519 power amps and some years ago I tried a friends SP8 in my set up and loved it.
My PT 3 box preamp is sadly not working and I cannot find anyone to fix it, so hence my search for a vintage replacement. The SP8 or SP10 is my first choice. I am willing to negotiate on price but would like some more information it's condition.
Thanks
It's in very good condition I'd say.
It was bought new by my cousin alomg with a D100A which I have for sale, and a D60A2 which I have sold. He also bought a set of Maggie 3's at that time. I bought the SP-10 off him 6 years ago I'd say. It was dirty then and didn't have the best tubes.
I took it to the store where he first bought it (Birmingham Michigans' Alternative Audio) and had them ship it to Audio Research. There it was cleaned,...a few small things repaired (a lock-ring on the umbilical cord between the 2 units, and the timer that makes the green light flash on warm-up). Then it was completely re-tubed and giventhe listening tests they do. I think it was $800 or something. I'm probably have the receipt.
It was shipped back to the store with the tubes packed in a seperate foam block and numbered as to where they went. The store owner and I plugged the tubes back in.
I can take some high-res pics and email them to you if you like. You can call me at (313) 868-2628
There are some scratches on the tops I'd bet,..but the fronts look great. The ground pin may be missing from the main power cord.
Besides the SP-10, I also have the Audio Research D100A amp for sale (solid state, Class "A", 100W per channel.
And an MMF-7 turntable with a Grado Sonatta cartridge. Probably less than 2 hours of total use.
A few descent interconnects. Wire World Atlantis 2.
Wirte World Atlantis (1) speaker cables. 8' long each I think.
Cambridge Audio D500SE CD player. Smooth 32 bit D/A. Best of the sub-$1,1000 units as of a few years back. Review here. http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge-d500se_e.html
So I click on "edit" to make changes to the post and it won't allow me to until I register. SO I do that and now there's no "edit" link. Drat!
So here it is in a folow up. (Good thing I an suspicious and coppied it all before submitting).
It's in very good condition I'd say.
It was bought new by my cousin along with Audio Research D100A D60A2 amps. Also a set of Maggie 3's. I bought the SP-10 off him 6 years ago I'd say. It was dirty then and didn't have the best tubes.
I took it to the store where he first bought it (Alternative Audio in Birmingham Michigan) and had them ship it to Audio Research. There it was cleaned,...a few small things repaired (a lock-ring on the umbilical cord between the 2 units, and the timer that makes the green light flash on warm-up). Then it was completely re-tubed and given the listening tests they do. I think it was $800 or something. I'm probably have the receipt.
It was shipped back to the store with the tubes packed in a seperate foam block and numbered as to where they went. The store owner and I plugged the tubes back in.
I can take some high-res pics and email them to you if you like. You can call me at (313) 868-2628 or at stuart@simple.net
There are some scratches on the tops I'd bet (haven;t seen them in years),..but the fronts look great. The ground pin may be missing from the main power cord.
Neither my cousein or I are smokers, both single. My cousin had a cat, which I cought sleeping on the unit (hence the professional cleaning at Audio Research).
Besides the SP-10, I also have the Audio Research D100A amp for sale (solid state, Class "A", 100W per channel.
And an MMF-7 turntable with a Grado Sonatta cartridge. Probably less than 2 hours of total use.
A few descent interconnects. Wire World Atlantis 2.
Wire World Atlantis (1) speaker cables. 8' long each I think.
Cambridge Audio D500SE CD player. Smooth 32 bit D/A. Best of the sub-$1,1000 units as of a few years back. Review here. http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge-d500se_e.html
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