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any suggestions as to the best DIY DAC out there?
Follow Ups:
Hi,How do you define DIY in this context?
Do you want a full kit with extensive support or do you just want to know what sort of basic circuit to use and then sort out yourself the rest?
Which commercial DACs (or kits) use this DAC chip?
Hi,> Which commercial DACs (or kits) use this DAC chip?
Which DAC chip are you refering to?
TDA1541? PCM56?
I'd be interested in learning who builds DACs or kits with either of these DAC chips.
Hi,Commercial DAC's with TDA1541 in current production Zanden Model 5000 (No Oversampling). A recent Player from Sudgen in the UK used the TDA1541 too. The Marantz CD7 also used this Chip, as did the Marantz DA-12 (also Philips LHH-1000) DAC and countess other mid to late 80's products from Philips, marantz and Rotel (plus others).
The PCM56 (and similar DAC's) was used in a lot commercial gear around the same time, recent commercial implementation was the Audio Note Japan Hibari DAC.
was looking for a kit that I could assemble myself, some support would be nice however not too important. I could even source all the parts myself given a parts list, but a schematic or actual picture of step by step circuit board layout would also be very helpful.
Hi,> was looking for a kit that I could assemble myself, some support
> would be nice however not too important.Well, you do get a range of TDA1541/1545/1543 (sequency of personal sonic preference) based DAC Kits (google part numbers and DAC), generally non-oversampling, quite good, usually pretty cheap and so on.
Otherwise you have the K&K RAKK-DAC and Audio Note's Kit DAC.
> I could even source all the parts myself given a parts list, but
> a schematic or actual picture of step by step circuit board layout
> would also be very helpful.Well, if you can, using the TDA1541 non-oversampling is in my view the best sounding DAC for CD, full stop. I was probably the first to present such a DAC, quite a few have made similar designs available since.
A sleeper (and it has the advantage of current production too!!!) is the Burr Brown PCM56 in non-oversampling. There are several Japanese sites with schematics, again google around.
As a rule, i personally would suggest to avoid anything with oversampling, upsampling, lewsampling, noiseshaping and other such additives like the plague....
T
How close does the PCM56 come to the TDA1541?
We are also working up a kit (it won't be soon) but the TDA1541 supply/NOS type pricing is an issue for a kit product.
What about PCM63-K?
Brian
Take control! DIY.
Hi,> How close does the PCM56 come to the TDA1541?
Pretty close. I susect something there but it's just a cute little theory. The PCM56 remains in product status current with TI and has two HUGE advantages over most other commonly used DAC's.
First it's in long current production. And second it offers a +/-1mA output current range with a specified I/V resistor of up to 1K. So you can get out of a Receiver and a pair of PCM56 in current output mode 2V Peak-Peak and you only need around 10db gain to get a normal 2V RMS output. Given the low cost and easy implementation maybe 4pcs PCM56 in parallel per channel would do a neat trick with improved linearity?
Or get REALLY, REALLY outrageous and use a pack of 16 PCM56 per channel with a simple 1:3 Stepup transformer to get 2V RMS with around 500 Ohm output impedance from nothing but the receiver, suitable digital bus buffers and 32pcs PCM56 plus two transformers. Only downside is the 32pcs PCM56 draw a cool 2A+ on the -5V rail and 1A+ on the positive rail, plus you really need fanout buffers for the receiver to drive all these inputs and all.
Still, might be crazy enough to really fly.
> What about PCM63-K?
As good if not better, bust costs a lot more without material benefits for a 16-Bit non-versampling DAC.
I have not heard anything regarding RAKK Dac do you a link for that project?I have searched a few kits out there but I don't know how they perform
here are a couple of links to the sites I have found
http://www.scott-nixon.com/
and
http;//www.dddac.de/ (based on the 1543 chip)
Hi,> I have not heard anything regarding RAKK Dac do you a link for
> that project?http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html
Note, the RAKK DAC is exactly the kind of thing I do NOT like, it was included for completeness.
> I have searched a few kits out there but I don't know how they
> perform here are a couple of links to the sites I have found
> http://www.scott-nixon.com/
> and
> http;//www.dddac.de/ (based on the 1543 chip)Both kit's are based on the WORST of the various TDA Chips. They will do okay, but they are in absolute terms somewhere in the 60 - 70% range, if I stake a well implemented TDA1541 (my personal favourite) as 100%.
Ciao T
Hi,> http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/tnt1541_e.html
Ahh, yes... Good to know Giorgio is still on things....
Is obtaining a TDA 1541A variant something to be concerned about?
> http://www.diyparadiso.com/dac1.htm
No offence meant, but the "designer" of this is better not trusted. He took so far two of my designed, "improved" them with the result that they no longer worked properly and then tried to blame me.... In one case he did it in his actual web-pages, in the other I had to help his customer, who had paid HIM good money to debug and reverse his "improvements" vai mail. Upshot, don't buy from there if you expect debugged and properly working designs.
> Is the "problem" cited at the end of the article significant:
There is no problem if you actually implement the DAC based on either my original design or if you use the latest generation analog stage for the TDA1541 which simplifies things a little over the original Adagio and actually sounds better too.
BTW, the "solution" of the "problem" Benny Glass and Co came up with was to implement a primitive oversampling system, not entierly unlike what GP does in decima versions of his DAC's.
Funny, I prefer to solve the problem in the analog domain, not the digital one, as I percieve it as an anlog one... ;-).
> There is no problem if you actually implement the DAC based
> on either my original design or if you use the latest generation
> analog stage for the TDA1541 which simplifies things a
> little over the original Adagio and actually sounds better too.I am an enthusiast builder and listener of your original Adagio DAC. Can you tell us something about the latest generation analog stage?
Best regards.
Marco
[the circuitry for these things are certainly not simple; hence the interest in a kit]
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/tnt1541_e.htmlIs obtaining a TDA 1541A variant something to be concerned about?
http://www.diyparadiso.com/dac1.htmIs the "problem" cited at the end of the article significant:
"... shows that the clock at 44,1Khz has subcarriers ( harmonics )
that modulate the signal :actually put in words : the whole audio band is duplicated around the carrier 44KHz above and beneath and this continues with every harmonic = 88.2Khz ect so the problem is the entire audioband 0-20Khz is reproduced thus from 44 + 20 = 64Khz and 44-20 = 24 Khz this particulary hurts audio reproduction as they intermodulate so we get if we have a 20Khz sinewave in the dac we get a duplication at 24Khz but worse we have the same energy as an intermodulation at 4Khz !!..."
For those with interest, DIY use of generic boards for this type of circuitry is discussed here:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/convertusdecima-inst_e.html
do you know of any DIY DAc's based on the 1541 TDA chipset?
Hi,> do you know of any DIY DAc's based on the 1541 TDA chipset?
There are some around, as said, google it.
My own one is at my site:
thunderstoneaudio.nav.to
thankyou very much for input, you have helped me understand alot more with regards to DAC design. It will definetly help me with my DIY DAC project. perhaps you should think about offering your DAC design for DIYer's it seems that you have gained much experience in DIY design.Once again thanks
Hi,> perhaps you should think about offering your DAC design for
> DIYer's it seems that you have gained much experience in DIY
> design.I originally did. I worked with a friend in Germany (Klaus Boehm) on that. As it turned out few DIY'ers had enough experience to complete as complex and difficult a project on their own and the level of support and help, never mind pre-sales suupport effectively scuppered the project dead, especially considering the potential income from it (basically close to diddely squat).
Here is what our DAC looked like:
More basic Kits around ideas similar to mine are legion, may in asia with both TDA1543 & 4545, a few TDA1541 Kits and so on.
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